Christian and Muslim Obstacles

[searchingsoul]

What do you find to be the biggest obstacles pertaining to Christian and Muslim dialogue?

[Panatella]

What do you find to be the biggest obstacles pertaining to Christian and Muslim dialogue?

Ignorance combined with arrogance.

[duskiness]

Ignorance combined with arrogance.

:giggling: so true!
my guess: using concept from one religious tradition to describe other. term "Word of God" as the most simple example- sounds the same but for Muslims and Christian brings (not totally, but..) diffrent meaning
n.

[Umar001]

Blind Faith,

Meaning the Inability to view a point from the perception of someone outside you faith.

For example, when you tell someone something like your book has contradictions they immidietly say 'My Quran saysit doesnt have any' or 'My bible says it doesnt have any'

And hold to those views, am not saying they havent got their right but I m jus saying if someone is going to have interfaith dialogue then it would be cool if both sides could be objective

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[Joe98]

What do you find to be the biggest obstacles pertaining to Christian and Muslim dialogue?

Having any dialogue in any month named "December".


-

[Zionazi_Dissent]

What do you find to be the biggest obstacles pertaining to Christian and Muslim dialogue?

Its impossible to have a decent dialogue since all arguments are based on holy books and blind faith. You must understand your faith befor you can speak for it.

Another problem is ignorance and lack of knowledge, leading to hate-filled assumptions.

[Asyur an-Nagi]

stupid believer who think they know better than anyone, and forcing that stupid little believe to the world.

[Isa Abdullah]

bismillah

being unable to tolerate one another and respect our similarities and tolerate our differences.

it is a competition all in all. A battle for souls.

[seek.learn]

Peace,

Ignorance combined with arrogance.

I think this describes it perfectly.

Peace

[Panatella]

Besides ignorance and arrogance, I would like to add stubborness.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:
Please keep personal disputes out of this.

:w:

[Isa Abdullah]

bismillah

Seems like a thread where disputes are futile.

[Fishman]

:sl:
That silly 'I don't like it so therefore its not true' argument.

And Islamophobia. A scholar called Abu Jafar al-Hanbali told me that when he was talking to two Christians, one of them fell on his hands and knees and begged the other one to not listen to Abu Jafar. The Christian then called the police, and they stopped Abu Jafar and his friend who was with him from ever setting foot in that Church again. So much for 'Christ welcomes all', a message commonly displayed on those notice boards outside Churches.
:w:

[wilberhum]

Three people put an end to the message of billions. Sounds fair to me.
Now lets talk about OBL.

[Woodrow]

Perhaps it is because most people learn to fight and never learn to debate. Religion is much too important to fight over. Yet, few people who enter into a religious discussion have the means of expressing themselves without fighting.

Religious discussions often fall into emotionalism. Once emotions become part of a discussion, reason takes a back seat.

Quick rule of thumb, that many people overlook. Once you let anger direct a reply, you are no longer understood, nor can you understand what is being said. Many people feel anger when something says something contradictory to their religious beliefs, at that point the discussion is gone, it has become a fight.

[snakelegs]

since both muslilms and christians regard their religion as The One True Religion, what is there to discuss beyond "mine is better than yours"?
maybe i'm missing something. it wouldn't be the first time.

[Asyur an-Nagi]

nothing wrong with regarding our belief as the best. but most believers put their beliefs more as an identity than a truth. identity is more as how we want people to recognize us and how to prove our existence. if someone sweat too much on my definition of identity, the truth would come second.

[evangel]

Woodrow stated, "Perhaps it is because most people learn to fight and never learn to debate. Religion is much too important to fight over." Actually I think debate should be replaced with discuss. To debate is to argue and convince by logic. Although God is a God of order He isn't a logic point. Anything I can talk someone into someone else can talk them out of so there has to be a change in the the heart that comes with the recieving of faith.
Another difficulty is as a Christian I believe in salvation by grace, and forgive me if I am wrong but Islam is salvation by works.
As I have read some of the threads in this forum I have come to realize that there is the frustration (this is a personal view) that should you not come to accept the grace and sacrifice of our Lord that I won't have the opportunity to become better acquainted with you in eternity. I didn't say this to bring on a debate but to point out what my frustration can be. Many of your posts show the same desire to hope for the best for one another which I believe is where our common ground can start.
So, with that said May the Lord bless you and keep you as we enter into hopefully many profitable discussions.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Greetings,
I agree we need to increase dialogue to foster understanding between our communities, to eliminate misconceptions, ignorance and stereotypes and any ill feeling that comes as a result of this.

Another difficulty is as a Christian I believe in salvation by grace, and forgive me if I am wrong but Islam is salvation by works.

Just a quick correction - this is not correct. Salvation in Islam is first and foremost by the mercy of God, and we earn God's mercy by BOTH faith in Him AND righteous deeds or works. They are most frequently mentioned together in the Qur'an.

Kind Regards

[nimrod]

Panatella “Ignorance combined with arrogance”.

Agreed.

Thanks
Nimrod

[evangel]

Thank you Ansâr for the correction.
Peace, grace and mercy to you,
Ray

[Joe98]

Salvation in Islam is first and foremost by the mercy of God, and we earn God's mercy by BOTH faith in Him AND righteous deeds or works.

Thats the same as the Christian belief.

[Eric H]

Greetings in peace to you all,

I often feel that the biggest obstacle between Christianity and Islam is a lack of brotherly love.

I feel this lack of brotherly love stands in the way of Christian Unity, Islamic Unity and interfaith relations between people of all faiths and no faith.

The same God created each and every one of us, which means we are all related to each other through one God. God chooses whom he wills, this message is in the Bible, and Koran, and possibly in many other holy books, and I believe this to be true.

God seems to have a purpose to choose each one of us through many diverse ways.

I feel that the greatest purpose for faith is a means to try and change ourselves, rather than have this need to change others.

In the spirit of striving for a greatest meaning of one God

Eric

[snakelegs]

eric's post made me think. this is only theoretical, since we are humans and not saints.
imagine a world where all christians and all muslims really lived and followed their religions. what would that be like - could they live in harmony or would they have to kill each other eventually?

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs,

I think it was Desmond Tutu who described all religions as being a morally neutral tool, you could also describe atheism and agnosticism as morally neutral.

He compared religion to a knife which is also a morally neutral tool, a surgeon can use a knife to heal, and a murderer can use a knife to kill.

A Christian should strive to become a better Christian and a Muslim should strive to become a better Muslim.

There is no compulsion in religion and so there should be no reason why people of all faiths cannot coexist peacefully together.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding

Eric

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

for me i would say the Prophecy of Rapture that caused chrisitan to support Israel for their "lord" to return.
thus Israel has the right to do anything for its won safety while sacrificing muslim lives.

Makes me wonder,does a loving god require to murder all jews if they dont convert to christianity??

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Zulkiflim,

The problems around Palestine and Israel seem so complex and deep routed, but I believe Israel to be in the wrong. I have recently written to Tony Blair urging him to take action and urge an immediate cease fire. There is an appeal for more people to challenge our prime minister on the following Christian Aid site.
http://www.pressureworks.org.uk/doso...east_form.html

The greatest thing Christians are commanded to do is to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength and to love our neighbours as we love ourselves. All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.

I am commanded to love you as I love myself, whether you convert to Christianity or remain a Muslim. If we should choose to act in a way that goes against these commandments, then we are not following in the true teachings of Christ.

I cannot see any barriers within religion and God’s desires that should put barriers between building greater interfaith relations, but maybe I am blind.

In the spirit of striving for brotherly love between our faiths,

Eric

[Joe98]

.....does a loving god require to murder all jews if they dont convert to christianity??

It's the same god that requires 200,000 Muslims to die in natural disasters.

That requires 20,000,000 to die in WW1

That requires 50,000,000 to die in WW2

Its the same god that gave a message to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) but did not give it to anybody else.

[Joe98]

where all christians and all muslims really lived and followed their religions. what would that be like - could they live in harmony

At first yes. But Muslims would try to introduce Shari law. This would not be allowed and then Muslims scream “discrimination” which leads to larger troubles.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace Joe98

It's the same god that requires 200,000 Muslims to die in natural disasters.

That requires 20,000,000 to die in WW1

That requires 50,000,000 to die in WW2

Its the same god that gave a message to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) but did not give it to anybody else.

We could possibly blame God for all these seemingly unnecessary deaths if there was nothing after death, but God gives us hope of a greater life after death.

God has to be morally greater than all of us, and he is a merciful God. So we must trust in God to put all things right.

Take care

Eric

[InToTheRain]

eric's post made me think. this is only theoretical, since we are humans and not saints.
imagine a world where all christians and all muslims really lived and followed their religions. what would that be like - could they live in harmony or would they have to kill each other eventually?

You will find in arab lands were once it was ruled by Islam (and its law the Sharia) there are still coptic christians numbering in the millions. This is proof that christians and muslims did live in harmony.

The Qur'an says there is no compulsion in religion and the muslims respected the christians.

[InToTheRain]

Rules for any constructive converstaion IMO:

1) both speakers must speak objectively and not subjectively.
2) both speakers must be ready to provide evidence, and should provide evidence to back up what they say or provide references so it can be checked.
3) both speakers must seek the truth and be ready to take constructive criticism.

[evangel]

Thats the same as the Christian belief.

Almost the same. My salvation is a gift paid for by Jesus; (Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God not because of works, lest any man should boast.). Jesus has not left me with the option to boast on anything I have done to gain the kingdom.

The deeds we do after being born again (good or bad) may gain us rewards in heaven they will not affect our assurance of it. Read this verse:
Matthew 5:19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus here is describing someone who has blown it yet will still be in heaven, maybe the least, but there.
In Christ is complete freedom but also a guide (the Holy Spirit) to help us in our walk. After all being a Christian is not arriving at a destination, it is the journey itself.

[Zulkiflim]

It's the same god that requires 200,000 Muslims to die in natural disasters.

That requires 20,000,000 to die in WW1

That requires 50,000,000 to die in WW2

Its the same god that gave a message to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) but did not give it to anybody else.

Salaam,

We muslim know that but supposdly by chritian doctorine god loves...

So is that a sign of god love?

For muslim life and death is a fact of life,so are diseases,being poor or rich,there are laws for everthing and in all cases it is choices for test.

But can you tell me ofr chrisitan doctorine of love and what not,what is the ratinale when something horrible happens to chrsiitan or acts done by chrsiitan?

An expale was the holocaust? Or the The Irish fight between protestant and catholics(is that right) Or the genocide in rwanda where 1million tutu were murdered by the church ?

[Zulkiflim]

Politics in the world affairs section, please.

[Fishman]

Or the genocide in rwanda where 1million tutu were murdered by the church ?

:sl:
The Church didn't kill the Tutsi, it was the Hutu tribe.
:w:

[evangel]

Probably the most important thing that Jesus had to teach us is about forgiveness. I would like to take the oppotunity now to ask forgiveness. History shows the many mistakes made by Christians in the course of spreading the Good News. As we look back many times are apparent where we were walking in the flesh rather than the spirit. There are many examples of Christianity being force fed on the end of a sword or rifle and that is wrong. There are many examples of over zealous people, in the name of Jesus, completely disrupting and destroying cultures. Jesus tells His disciples if a people does not want to hear His message then to leave that town and kick the dust from your heals. Basically, it is their choice. Free will is what God has given us. He desires to spend an eternity with those that would choose Him of their own will, not those who were forced. So again I would like to ask forgiveness of anyone who has been shown condemnation and not the love of our neighbor as we are asked. I offer no excuse for our trangressions just a desire that we be forgiven.

[Zulkiflim]

:sl:
The Church didn't kill the Tutsi, it was the Hutu tribe.
:w:

Salaam,

Again forgeting what you wish to forget,the hutu and tutis were both chrsiitan and it is noted by both sides that church men killed Tutsi in churches with the blessing of the then priest.

Some priest even aided in their murder.

[PIE]The Silent Church
See and hear testimonies from SURF's Online Media Library

Many priests and nuns who spoke out on human rights abuses were killed. Some priests tried to stop the genocide, but many also refused to condemn it. Indeed, in a grotesque perversion of their calling, large numbers of clergy actually assisted the killers, whether by denying sanctuary to those fleeing or, in some cases, betraying the hiding places of the Tutsis and leading their killers to them.

[/PIE]

http://www.survivors-fund.org.uk/genocide/church.htm

you cna find here..

So ar these people i your mind christians??
Or will you ignore the question?

[Zulkiflim]

Probably the most important thing that Jesus had to teach us is about forgiveness. I would like to take the oppotunity now to ask forgiveness. History shows the many mistakes made by Christians in the course of spreading the Good News. As we look back many times are apparent where we were walking in the flesh rather than the spirit. There are many examples of Christianity being force fed on the end of a sword or rifle and that is wrong. There are many examples of over zealous people, in the name of Jesus, completely disrupting and destroying cultures. Jesus tells His disciples if a people does not want to hear His message then to leave that town and kick the dust from your heals. Basically, it is their choice. Free will is what God has given us. He desires to spend an eternity with those that would choose Him of their own will, not those who were forced. So again I would like to ask forgiveness of anyone who has been shown condemnation and not the love of our neighbor as we are asked. I offer no excuse for our trangressions just a desire that we be forgiven.

Salaam,

Yes christianty is constantly evolving to suit the current fashion.

But my question is if the now chrisitan are referenced by future chrisitan as non christian what would you say?

What would you say that the current interpretation of love and forgiveness as is before the past are false?

[Fishman]

Salaam,

Again forgeting what you wish to forget,the hutu and tutis were both chrsiitan and it is noted by both sides that church men killed Tutsi in churches with the blessing of the then priest.

Some priest even aided in their murder.

[PIE]The Silent Church
See and hear testimonies from SURF's Online Media Library

Many priests and nuns who spoke out on human rights abuses were killed. Some priests tried to stop the genocide, but many also refused to condemn it. Indeed, in a grotesque perversion of their calling, large numbers of clergy actually assisted the killers, whether by denying sanctuary to those fleeing or, in some cases, betraying the hiding places of the Tutsis and leading their killers to them.

[/PIE]

http://www.survivors-fund.org.uk/genocide/church.htm

you cna find here..

So ar these people i your mind christians??
Or will you ignore the question?

:sl:
But why didn't the people who did a presentation on the Rwanda genocide who came to our school tell us this?
:w:

[Zulkiflim]

:sl:
But why didn't the people who did a presentation on the Rwanda genocide who came to our school tell us this?
:w:

Salaam,

i do not know,but you can be sure that when this happened in that time,the church complicity was not made obvious by the media.and i think you know why.



Perhaps the next time such people came by you can tell them?LOL


Read this testimony

http://www.survivors-fund.org.uk/pdf..._izibagiza.pdf
http://www.survivors-fund.org.uk/genocide/church.htm#

[evangel]

"Yes christianty is constantly evolving to suit the current fashion."



What do you mean by evolving? I don't recall saying that the gospel has changed, I do recall asking forgiveness for heinous acts done in the name of Christianity. The message of the gospel is the same as it was 2000 years ago. Salvation is through Jesus, and I make no apology for that.



"But my question is if the now chrisitan are referenced by future chrisitan as non christian what would you say?"


Why would you want to put words in my mouth? Read my post again and tell me where I wrote that anyone was non-christian. If your muslim brother behaves in a manner not befitting your beliefs would you declare him a non-muslim or ask forgiveness of those he has treated improperly.



"What would you say that the current interpretation of love and forgiveness as is before the past are false?"



God's definition of love and forgiveness has not changed and that is the character Christians desire to be built in them. I do not ask forgiveness for my sake, Jesus has forgiven me. Nor do I ask for your sake, though it is better for you if you do forgive. I ask so that the glory of the Lord may be seen.



My prayer is that this verse does not pertain to you.

Matthew 13:13-15

"With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says:

‘You shall indeed hear but never understand,

and you shall indeed see but never perceive.

For this people’s heart has grown dull,and their ears are heavy of hearing,

and their eyes they have closed,

lest they should perceive with their eyes,

and hear with their ears,

and understand with their heart,

and turn for me to heal them.’"




Romans 8:28
We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.

[Zulkiflim]

"Yes christianty is constantly evolving to suit the current fashion."



What do you mean by evolving? I don't recall saying that the gospel has changed, I do recall asking forgiveness for heinous acts done in the name of Christianity. The message of the gospel is the same as it was 2000 years ago. Salvation is through Jesus, and I make no apology for that.



"But my question is if the now chrisitan are referenced by future chrisitan as non christian what would you say?"


Why would you want to put words in my mouth? Read my post again and tell me where I wrote that anyone was non-christian. If your muslim brother behaves in a manner not befitting your beliefs would you declare him a non-muslim or ask forgiveness of those he has treated improperly.



"What would you say that the current interpretation of love and forgiveness as is before the past are false?"



God's definition of love and forgiveness has not changed and that is the character Christians desire to be built in them. I do not ask forgiveness for my sake, Jesus has forgiven me. Nor do I ask for your sake, though it is better for you if you do forgive. I ask so that the glory of the Lord may be seen.



My prayer is that this verse does not pertain to you.

Matthew 13:13-15

"With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says:

‘You shall indeed hear but never understand,

and you shall indeed see but never perceive.

For this people’s heart has grown dull,and their ears are heavy of hearing,

and their eyes they have closed,

lest they should perceive with their eyes,

and hear with their ears,

and understand with their heart,

and turn for me to heal them.’"




Romans 8:28
We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.

Salaam,

As i said the gospel has changed to suit man,as in the past when it is ok for slavery,burning of witches and crusades,those were the IDEAL chrsitian of that time.

And over time the gospel changes to become that of love.All encomapssing love.I am sure if you read enough of chrsiitan history you would know that the current doctoine of forgivenss does not esxist in the old gospel.Rahter the church father then command the biblical laws of punishment to be enforce,an exaple were the buring of withces and what not.

Perhaps you did not read the threads between me and the other about Hitler being chrisitan or not.And you replied and i thought you were the same person,sorry.
But i ask you do you think Hitler was a christian?Or mIloselvic? Or bush? Or Blair?

And for Islam and muslim ,when you say the shahadah 3 times then you are a muslim.For me Osama is a smulim,as is Zaqawi,Saddam is a muslim..I cnanot take their reliogn from them.

So i shall give you the history of chrsiitanity..

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

Of course that is but one layer of the changes in chrisitan idealogy from it inception,even the bible and the idea of trinity is evolution in chrsiitan faith.





About heretic torture..