Materialism?

[iqbal_soofi]

Everybody (including religious people) have material needs in this world. The problem with the educated Muslims these days is that they have to work in western style organizations in their own countries or some of them go to the west for work in order to fulfill their material needs. It's a shame for us.

But when somebody tries to advise the educated Muslims to create and develop their own production sources and organizations for their material needs, then the majority of educated Muslims react very badly on the idea. They call it materialism to talk about material production. They term it as worldly affair, bla bla …. This is even more shame for us.

Why do they talk like idiots?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

us muslims got pretty much what we need. a floor to sleep on, a roof to shelter us, food to eat, and a computer to research islam on !!!

oh Alhamdulillaaah :)

[iqbal_soofi]

us muslims got pretty much what we need. a floor to sleep on, a roof to shelter us, food to eat, and a computer to research islam on !!!

oh Alhamdulillaaah :)

What do you mean by us?

Try to be honest. At least with yourself. Don't try to tell that all of us sleep on floor, have nothing but a roof for shelter and eat a little bit of food and then spend all of our time on computer to find something missing. In fact all of us different challenges to meet and to compete with the rest of the people. We're no less than others. Allah has given all kinds of blessings like He gave to other people. We work in western organization inour countries, and some of us go to the western countries not just for a floor, a shelter or a computer to do research on Islam. You're trying to fools yourself, but don't expect this foolishness from all other Muslims. We need to open our eyes. Other nations have gone far ahead of us. We beg, borrow or buy everything from this. When shall we start thinking like normal people?

[Woodrow]

Why do we have this connontation that all business is a Western thing?
the Muslim world has a very long tradition of Manufacturing, shipping and trading. Do you think the early Muslims developed navigation and ship building because they wanted to relax out on the wide open ocean? Do you think the old Camel caravans which were a trade essential for much of the world was developed because the early Muslims liked to ride camels?

Islam has a very long business history.

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[IbnAbdulHakim]

What do you mean by us?

Try to be honest. At least with yourself. Don't try to tell that all of us sleep on floor, have nothing but a roof for shelter and eat a little bit of food and then spend all of our time on computer to find something missing. In fact all of us different challenges to meet and to compete with the rest of the people. We're no less than others. Allah has given all kinds of blessings like He gave to other people. We work in western organization inour countries, and some of us go to the western countries not just for a floor, a shelter or a computer to do research on Islam. You're trying to fools yourself, but don't expect this foolishness from all other Muslims. We need to open our eyes. Other nations have gone far ahead of us. We beg, borrow or buy everything from this. When shall we start thinking like normal people?

what i mean is muslims dont need much of the kaafirs stuff :D, all we need is a place to sleep and perhaps sheets etc, some food, books and internet.

i am trying to be honest... what more do we need? what do you mean by manufacture our own stuff, what would you want to manufacture?

[Skillganon]

What do you mean by us?

Try to be honest. At least with yourself. Don't try to tell that all of us sleep on floor, have nothing but a roof for shelter and eat a little bit of food and then spend all of our time on computer to find something missing. In fact all of us different challenges to meet and to compete with the rest of the people. We're no less than others. Allah has given all kinds of blessings like He gave to other people. We work in western organization inour countries, and some of us go to the western countries not just for a floor, a shelter or a computer to do research on Islam. You're trying to fools yourself, but don't expect this foolishness from all other Muslims. We need to open our eyes. Other nations have gone far ahead of us. We beg, borrow or buy everything from this. When shall we start thinking like normal people?

Bro I think he was joking. Of course we need to be optimistic and move forward in those issue.

[Muezzin]

More Muslims should start businesses rather than moaning that, and I quote, 'the Jews own everything'. Boo-hoo. In the real world, whining doesn't get people very far - hard work and enterprise, on the other hand, do, as 'the Jews' show.

[iqbal_soofi]

Why do we have this connontation that all business is a Western thing?
the Muslim world has a very long tradition of Manufacturing, shipping and trading. Do you think the early Muslims developed navigation and ship building because they wanted to relax out on the wide open ocean? Do you think the old Camel caravans which were a trade essential for much of the world was developed because the early Muslims liked to ride camels?

Islam has a very long business history.

You're very much to the point. The progress and prosperity in the west today is because they were impressed by the Muslim world's progress. Muslims made a remarkeable history when they developed the material sciences. Now it's the opposite of it. We're neglecting the materialist part of Islam completely and now focused only on the spiritualist part of it. We can't ignore our material needs. We shouldn't mistake materialism with greed for materials. Islam guides us how to get knowledge to produce materials and then how to distribute materials in the people.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^thats right.

[iqbal_soofi]

^^thats right.

But how we can change the present downward trend and put the educated Muslims back on the positive thinking track again?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

You should start with yourself before u can tell anyone else. For one u can raise your kids that way. Dont let them get too caught up in things that aren't important. Get involved in things. Let people know, so at least someone might take it into consideration. All we can do is tell people, but they need to do it themselves.

[iqbal_soofi]

You should start with yourself before u can tell anyone else. For one u can raise your kids that way. Dont let them get too caught up in things that aren't important. Get involved in things. Let people know, so at least someone might take it into consideration. All we can do is tell people, but they need to do it themselves.

I already do it the way you advised but this doesn't make any significant affect on the downwards trend. I think that a plenty of funds are spent on propaganda to maintain or increase this downwards trend. The forces that are benefitting from this foolish thinking of sentimental Muslims are spending money because they want Muslims only to learn the material sciences so that they become their consumers. They don't want Muslims to develop their resources so that they don't compete with them in the market.

[Umar001]

what i mean is muslims dont need much of the kaafirs stuff :D, all we need is a place to sleep and perhaps sheets etc, some food, books and internet.

i am trying to be honest... what more do we need? what do you mean by manufacture our own stuff, what would you want to manufacture?

But even with the bare neccesities, think about it, your food and drink and daily stuff where do you get it from? And where could it be coming from?

I mean stuff like electricity and so forth that might be to big of a step right now, but your daily food, your clothing, your bags and accesories for schools.

Muslims buy that at Argos, or Tescos and so forth, instead they could have baught it at Muslim businesses and kept the money within the muslims so that the money could then be spent in their own interest in building masjids and charity and not just given to big companies who wont do as much for you.

But how we can change the present downward trend and put the educated Muslims back on the positive thinking track again?

Simple things like buying chicken from Islamic butchers instead of Supermarker halal brand, try to go to Islamic markets to buy your groceries even if they cost that little bit extra.

[Woodrow]

Supporting your local Muslim business man is the best way to return Islam back to it's former role as a manufacturer and not just a consumer. The Arab world was well known for manufacturing until it became dependent on oil for it's wealth. The best steel in the world came from Syria (Damascus steel) the best leather came from Morocco, The best rugs came from Iran (Persian Rugs) Plus the entire region was reknowned for it's glassware, brass work, rifle making, quality of wool, and many other items. Now all that is left is nobody can think of a thing Muslims make, except to sell oil, that they don't even have to touch.

[Malaikah]

We beg, borrow or buy everything from this. When shall we start thinking like normal people?

:sl:

What are you trying to say? ^o) Most Muslims I know work very hard for their cash. They do not 'beg'.

I really don't understand what you are trying to say here... most Muslim I know are really into the world of this life and tend to forget about the hereafter...

You've really confused me...:?

[netprince]

:sl:

What are you trying to say? ^o) Most Muslims I know work very hard for their cash. They do not 'beg'.

I really don't understand what you are trying to say here... most Muslim I know are really into the world of this life and tend to forget about the hereafter...

You've really confused me...:?

What he is trying to say is that muslims are not making anything themselves. Muslims are working in every industry you can think of but can you think of one industry which is muslim controlled/owned?

For example, who makes the cars we drive? Who makes the aeroplanes we fly in?...Ships....TVs....Phones....etc etc etc Try and think of one thing that muslims are world leaders in....

The only muslim country i can think of that is making an effort to improve in such matters is Malaysia.

[Malaikah]

can you think of one industry which is muslim controlled/owned?

:sl:

Yeh, I can, in fact the Muslims run the best industry of all: Islam. :) :thumbs_up

[zanjabeela]

:sl:

Yeh, I can, in fact the Muslims run the best industry of all: Islam. :) :thumbs_up

:sl:
Actually, we don't even seem to be running that very well either. We get caught up in petty little debates, where someone is always saying "Bring your daleel!" rather than applying the concept of live and let live.

But, yeah, supporting our own communities would be a great beginning. I mean, rather than grudging the few extra dollars that we have to pay to the Muslim grocer or clothing store owner, we should be grateful for the chance to help build a stronger, more successful community. But no...what we have instead is the reverse: we expect to pay less to our fellow Muslim, and then go and burn the cash we save on a lovely little Mercedes or Corvette. Which are not bad things to have, but does indicate our messed-up priorities.

I would like to be optimistic about Muslim owned companies, large ones...but we really need a more philanthropic-oriented mindset for that to happen. Alhamdulillah that people are fixing their spiritual aspects...maybe our children will see a world where Muslims have their materialism influenced by this increased spiritualism. Our past indicates that when both are in balance, the world is a better place.

[chacha_jalebi]

about the 1st post :D . . . . when i read it reminded manz of surah at takathur

The mutual rivalry for piling up (the good things of this world) diverts you (from the more serious things),

Until ye visit the graves.

But nay, ye soon shall know (the reality).

Again, ye soon shall know!
Nay, were ye to know with certainty of mind, (ye would beware!)

Ye shall certainly see Hell-Fire!

Again, ye shall see it with certainty of sight!

Then, shall ye be questioned that Day about the joy (ye indulged in!)

[Muezzin]

Imagine all the hungry children one could feed if the few obscenely rich Muslims spent it on them rather than a(nother) palace. Imagine how many more Muslims would be in a position to really help third world countries economically if more of us had the support of our brothers when setting up businesses, rather than being told by certain people who do nothing that such ventures are materialistic and anathema to Islam. I know there are charities, and mashallah, they do help - but money makes the world go round unfortunately, and although private individuals do contribute large sums, certain countries are in such a state that they need more.

Also, if Muslims became major economic players and capitalized on, say, oil reserves, rather than sitting on them and offering them to the richest American who happens to saunter by, maybe there would be less trouble with Western states in the Middle East, and maybe there would be less psychos using such troubles as an excuse to bomb Western civilians. They don't call it the Almighty Dollar for nothing.

[Snowflake]

I know what Iqbal bro is trying to say. For instance in pakistan for example, instead of promoting their own produced goods as 'pakistani', they are marketed as 'made in japan/china' blah blah blah. In effect they are demoting their own goods which are as good a quality as foreign goods.

I agree that overall muslims should work harder in the sense the bro explained. Muslims are extremely talented, but they've stopped improving themselves and resorted to buying/using from foreign means. We can do so much better and become totally self-sufficient.

[Malaikah]

they are marketed as 'made in japan/china' blah blah blah.

:sl:

But almost everything I buy here is made in china too. :offended: And I don't live in a Muslim dominated country. :?

I agree that overall muslims should work harder in the sense the bro explained. Muslims are extremely talented, but they've stopped improving themselves and resorted to buying/using from foreign means. We can do so much better and become totally self-sufficient.

Don't you think places like Pakistan have a lot more important things to worry about than businesses and the like, and being self-sufficient (which we can never be btw, only Allah is self-sufficient:))? I've heard that there is A LOT of major shirk going on in Pakistan, I'm not trying to be pick on that country, I know it happens in other places too but I'm just using this country as an example because you mentioned it... The scholars say that there is no excuse of ignorance for major shirk... which means we have people walking around acting like they are Muslims but in reality, they don't even realise they are mushriks! :offended:

I don't know, perhaps I am looking at this differently to people here, but I see plenty of Muslims obsessed with this kind of stuff already, and I would rather see more people obsessed with Islam... And I don't see the point of focusing on dominating industries and the like when the majority of Muslims haven't even understood Islam yet...

[Snowflake]

Malaikah;634391]:sl:

But almost everything I buy here is made in china too. :offended: And I don't live in a Muslim dominated country. :?

There's no great harm if the products are genuinely made in china. Pakistan has some great textile mills that produce gorgeous fabrics. But if you've been there like I have you'll see that retailers claim it to be made in japan/china.. anywhere but pakistan. That's what I think is wrong.

Don't you think places like Pakistan have a lot more important things to worry about than businesses and the like, and being self-sufficient (which we can never be btw,

I'm not saying there aren't other things to worry about but that trade and industry are important in any part of the world. They give the less privileged a chance to earn a living and in turn reduce crime committed due to poverty.

only Allah is self-sufficient:))?

No doubt! But I meant in the industrial/economical sense. :)

I've heard that there is A LOT of major shirk going on in Pakistan, I'm not trying to be pick on that country, I know it happens in other places too but I'm just using this country as an example because you mentioned it... The scholars say that there is no excuse of ignorance for major shirk... which means we have people walking around acting like they are Muslims but in reality, they don't even realise they are mushriks! :offended:

I agree with you. If you read my post on the thread where scholars issued a fatwah on honour killings, you'd notice that I said scholars actively need to spread Islam and educate people, and not dish out fatwahs alone.

I don't know, perhaps I am looking at this differently to people here, but I see plenty of Muslims obsessed with this kind of stuff already, and I would rather see more people obsessed with Islam... And I don't see the point of focusing on dominating industries and the like when the majority of Muslims haven't even understood Islam yet...

I am not suggesting we should become materially obsessed either. Without islam as the foundation, nothing reaches it's true potential, because the decay of corruption soon eats away the achievements. All I am saying is that as far Pakistan is concerned:

a) it should promote it's own produce and not be ashamed of it
b) set up a tax system and fund education, medical facilities, research and technology
c) encourage people to set up industries/businesses in pakistan rather than abroad to provide jobs for the poor
d) allow scholars to set Islamic guidelines in all affairs of management

I know without implementing islam, Pakistan (or any country) will never improve as a people. This is evident from looking at 'advanced' non muslim countries where people remain as morally/socially corrupted as muslims who are ignorant of islam. That is not the kind of improvement I'm suggesting.


:w:

[Malaikah]

There's no great harm if the products are genuinely made in china. Pakistan has some great textile mills that produce gorgeous fabrics. But if you've been there like I have you'll see that retailers claim it to be made in japan/china.. anywhere but pakistan. That's what I think is wrong.

:sl:

LOL! That is so weird. :uuh:

I agree with the rest of your post. :shade:

[Snowflake]

^lol tell me about it.. it's so obvious when they do that. I'm like errr.. as long as I like it, I'd still buy it even if you say it's made in Pakistan! lol

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

:threadclo

No, i'm joking. Please keep on topic though!

[iqbal_soofi]

:sl:

Yeh, I can, in fact the Muslims run the best industry of all: Islam. :) :thumbs_up

You said it right. They've made an industry out of Islam as well. Look who is getting the material profit from this industry. For example all the money Muslims spend in Haj go to big corporations of USA who invested heavily in developing the modern Haj facilities, in air lines for transporting the pilgrims, in the five star hotels of Mecca and madina etc. On top of all their profit, the profit share of the Saudis is also deposited in the western Banks.

It's only a part of the solution that some Muslims own industries and businesses in Muslim or non-Muslim countries. But the real problem is that the best assets of Muslims (which is the educated class) is serving in the west of or the western industries. Also the industries and businesses owned by Muslims are only the branches or subsideries of the western businesses. They benefit more from those industries than the Muslims. Also the profit which Muslim owners get from their businesses and indsutries is not spent on the common Muslims. They only spend a very small part of it on promoting some religious factions of their own choice. That might give them a peace of mind but that certainly doesn't solve the economic or material problems of common Muslims at all. That only caused an irrecoverable brain damage to the educated Muslim class. Now, every educated Muslim has been involved in doing Allah, Allah, but they've to look towards the west for the economic problems. The educated Muslim brains cannot work to solve their economic problems without west.