Who spread Islam in the sub-continent?

[iqbal_soofi]

Do you know how Islam was spread in the sub-continet of Pak-o-Ind?

Which kind of people spread Islam in this region?

[siFilam]

:salamext:

Do you know how Islam was spread in the sub-continet of Pak-o-Ind?

Which kind of people spread Islam in this region?

I'm not sure. my parents are from Bangladesh and I've heard stories about the poeple who introduced Islam in our area of Bangladesh. We're from Sylhet (I probably spelled it wrong). I think the stories are true because the grave of the Imam is still there. His name was Shah Jalal, something like that. He came from Yemen but his uncle was a well known Sheikh at that time and he lived in Baghdad. So the uncle gave his nephew some sand from their area and he told him to travel until he finds a place where the sand is similar to the one he gave him. So Shah Jalal traveled and along the way many people started following him until he reached our area with 300 or more followers....the story goes on...i'm probably boring you guys..sorry. :-[

wasalam
-SI-

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


I think it was by the cousin of Al Hajjaaj ibn Yusuf Al-Thaqafi, Muhammad ibn Qasim who was only 17years old when he lead the army, during the rule of Bani Umayya in 97After Hijrah [AH].

Some muslim women had been captured by hindu pirates next to Sindh in Pakistan, so he lead an army to get them back - and he conquered Pakistan at that time, alhamdulillah. And Allaah knows best.

[snakelegs]

sufis.

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[Abu Zakariya]

This link might be interesting:

http://www.kff.com/english/kfip/2000...icstudies.html

[iqbal_soofi]

:salamext:


I'm not sure. my parents are from Bangladesh and I've heard stories about the poeple who introduced Islam in our area of Bangladesh. We're from Sylhet (I probably spelled it wrong). I think the stories are true because the grave of the Imam is still there. His name was Shah Jalal, something like that. He came from Yemen but his uncle was a well known Sheikh at that time and he lived in Baghdad. So the uncle gave his nephew some sand from their area and he told him to travel until he finds a place where the sand is similar to the one he gave him. So Shah Jalal traveled and along the way many people started following him until he reached our area with 300 or more followers....the story goes on...i'm probably boring you guys..sorry. :-[

wasalam
-SI-

Well that's an intersting stories though. There're many other sufis who spread Islam in different areas of the sub continent. They too have intersting stories. These stories are made more interesting by their followers by adding spices into them. You can hear these stories when you go to their graves which are very well decorated. They make a lot of money from the graves of sufis.

[siFilam]

:salamext:

Well that's an intersting stories though. There're many other sufis who spread Islam in different areas of the sub continent. They too have intersting stories. These stories are made more interesting by their followers by adding spices into them. You can hear these stories when you go to their graves which are very well decorated. They make a lot of money from the graves of sufis.

I doubt that he was a sufi but if he was he probably wasn't one of those deviated ones. through the stories it was told that he performed miracle, taught Islam to the natives and fought the Hindu king who tried to stop him and his follower. Allah Knows best.

wasalam
-SI-

[iqbal_soofi]

:salamext:


I doubt that he was a sufi but if he was he probably wasn't one of those deviated ones. through the stories it was told that he performed miracle, taught Islam to the natives and fought the Hindu king who tried to stop him and his follower. Allah Knows best.

wasalam
-SI-

All the sufis performed some miracles. This was their way to attract and impress innocent people. They named these as 'Karamaat'. However, Sufis never fought with anyone. They actually worked as a link between the people and the local rulers although their connections with the rulers were not open or visible. They were also known as 'Waseela' (means link). They calmed down the public uprisings against wicked rulers by teaching tolerance and endurance to the people.

[siFilam]

All the sufis performed some miracles. This was their way to attract and impress innocent people. They named these as 'Karamaat'. However, Sufis never fought with anyone. They actually worked as a link between the people and the local rulers although their connections with the rulers were not open or visible. They were also known as 'Waseela' (means link). They calmed down the public uprisings against wicked rulers by teaching tolerance and endurance to the people.

then he wasn't a Sufi because he fought the Hindu King who ruled over our area. after the king's defeat he ran for his life and moved to somewhere near the border of India...:D

just curious...u like sufis?

[iqbal_soofi]

then he wasn't a Sufi because he fought the Hindu King who ruled over our area. after the king's defeat he ran for his life and moved to somewhere near the border of India...:D

just curious...u like sufis?

But you said he showed some miracles which is more like sufis.

[north_malaysian]

Question: Who spread Islam in the sub-continent?

Answer: Muslims :okay:

[جوري]

^^^ lol... brilliant

[iqbal_soofi]

Question: Who spread Islam in the sub-continent?

Answer: Muslims :okay:

Are you sure?

Do you know that Muslims failed to spread Islam in the sub-continent when they tried to do it in the prescribed way. Islam was then spread in the sub continent many centuries later by those who deviated too much from the prescribed way. They were sufis. They deviated from the basics of Islam so much that religious scholars don't want to admit them as Muslims.

[siFilam]

Are you sure?

Do you know that Muslims failed to spread Islam in the sub-continent when they tried to do it in the prescribed way. Islam was then spread in the sub continent many centuries later by those who deviated too much from the prescribed way. They were sufis. They deviated from the basics of Islam so much that religious scholars don't want to admit them as Muslims.

whats ur sources.

[chacha_jalebi]

it was muhammad ibn qasim ra lik bro fi said and he was sent by hajjaj ibn yousaf who was caliph. i tink hajjaj was his uncle:D

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


No bro ^ Al Hajjaaj ibn Yusuf wasn't khalifah, he was a governor of Iraq :) under the Umayya Dynasty.


Sister siFilam, karamaat can occur - but they happen to the people who are really pious. We know even companions of the Messenger of Allaah experienced them;

http://www.islamicboard.com/biograph...ced-salaf.html


However, if this thread turns into a sectarian thread - it may have to be closed down.

[wilberhum]

Some muslim women had been captured by hindu pirates next to Sindh in Pakistan, so he lead an army to get them back - and he conquered Pakistan at that time,

Conquered an entire country because Hindu pirates captured some women.
Would the term "Islamic Liberation" be applied here?

[- Qatada -]

Conquered an entire country because Hindu pirates captured some women.
Would the term "Islamic Liberation" be applied here?

Most countries at that time didn't allow the people to practise their own religion freely, so if you were to go to Al-Shaam [Greater Syria] - the Byzantinian Romans wouldn't allow their people to follow any religion except christianity, if you went to Persia/Iraq - the Sassanids wouldn't allow people to follow any other religion other than Zoarastrianism, if you went to India/Pakistan - they wouldn't allow you to follow any other religion other than hinduism etc.

An example of this is when a man who lived in Greater Syria became muslim, and he was killed by the Byzantinian Romans because he left the religion of their ruler - Heraclius.


So when Islaam came into power, it actually spread to other lands to allow the people to follow their own religion freely, so long as they payed the jizya tax [a small tax], similar to a tax that muslims would pay anyway [i.e. zakaah.] If these people payed the jizya, they would have their blood and honor protected, and no-one could force them to leave their religion.

If an army came to attack that state, it would be the muslims duty to defend the honor and blood of the non muslims within that state. This is why if you go to Pakistan/India today, there are still many hindus, if you got Greater Syria, there are still many Christians, if you go to Persia/Iran - there are still Zoarastrians, yet most of these people became muslim and still are today because they saw that islaam was the truth.


Therefore the people had the freedom of religion and they were so happy with the liberation that the muslims gave them, by the Mercy of Allaah. Otherwise they would have to pay heavy taxes to the Persian Sassanids or Roman Byzantinians and be slaves for them. And they wouldn't have a freedom to religion or even honor. Their blood was cheap in the site of these people, so Allaah blessed alot of them with islaam because they saw the justice of the religion revealed to Allaah's final Messenger, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him.)



Regards.

[wilberhum]

So the term "Islamic Liberation" could be applied here. :skeleton:
Interesting.

[- Qatada -]

Yup ^ Sure is. :)

[siFilam]

:salamext:


No bro ^ Al Hajjaaj ibn Yusuf wasn't khalifah, he was a governor of Iraq :) under the Umayya Dynasty.


Sister siFilam, karamaat can occur - but they happen to the people who are really pious. We know even companions of the Messenger of Allaah experienced them;

Jazakallah Khair for the clarification.

-SI-

[iqbal_soofi]

whats ur sources.

The books of islamic history in the subcontinent tell us the how Islam was spread in different parts of the sub-continent. Then you read the way of preaching of the sufis and their poetry with which they won the hearts of the native populations. This is not the conventional way of spreading Islam.

Mohammad Bin Qasim conquered one city or a small state near the sea port which was named as Debal at that time. He defeated a Hindu raja and formed a small government. Muslims spread Islam by sword in the nearby villages and towns, but couldn't go any further because the people further east were much tough and strong to be converted by sword. The Muslim government formed by Arabs didn't last very long even in that small area. Please read the history of the region.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


It's not part of islaam to force people to become muslim ^ :)

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. [Qur'an 2:256]

[wilberhum]

:salamext:
It's not part of islaam to force people to become muslim ^ :)

Is it your implication that what "Islam says" and what some "Muslims do" are identical? :skeleton:

Islam was not spread solely in a peaceful manner. :?

As with all other religions, some times the sword was used.

[- Qatada -]

Is it your implication that what "Islam says" and what some "Muslims do" are identical? :skeleton:

Islam was not spread solely in a peaceful manner. :?

As with all other religions, some times the sword was used.

No, its part of islaam not to force people to become muslim. Since that wasn't the way of the Prophets of Allaah, peace be upon them. To force someone to become muslim is like forcing someone to be a hypocrite, since that person may pretend outwardly to be a muslim and disbelieve inside their heart. And being a hypocrite is even worse than being a disbeliever who opposes the muslims clearly. Because they're a hidden enemy that way. And Allaah knows best.


Regards.

[wilberhum]

No, its part of islaam not to force people to become muslim. Since that wasn't the way of the Prophets of Allaah, peace be upon them. To force someone to become muslim is like forcing someone to be a hypocrite, since that person may pretend outwardly to be a muslim and disbelieve inside their heart. And being a hypocrite is even worse than being a disbeliever who opposes the muslims clearly. Because they're a hidden enemy that way. And Allaah knows best.


Regards.

So it is your implication that what "Islam says" and what some "Muslims do" are identical. And all Muslims do what "Islam says".
Interesting. :skeleton:
Not only is Islam perfect, so are all Muslims.
Even more interesting. :skeleton: :skeleton:

[- Qatada -]

Keep it up ^ seems like you're used to taking things out of context. Islaam is perfect, muslims aren't.


Regards.

[wilberhum]

Keep it up ^ seems like you're used to taking things out of context. Islaam is perfect, muslims aren't.


Regards.

Then is it possible that some Muslims spread Islam by the sword? :?

[- Qatada -]

Yeah it is ^ and i never said it never happened either. Even if someone disobeys the commandments, doesn't mean they're doing the right thing.

[noodles]

Wars were fought for the spread of islamic shariah.

Islamic shariah allows for other religions to live under the muslim rule. It is not in our religion to use 'force' to convert someone.

(someone correct me if I'm wrong)

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


When muslims would go to a land, they would give them one of three options:

1) Become muslim and you will be equal to us as brothers/sisters in faith.

2) Pay Jizya, and your blood and honor will be protected, while allowing people to have freedom of religion.

3) If you don't want to accept the above, then fight.

Options 1 and 2 were for the freedom of the people, but if the opposing government persisted in their rule of oppression - then the muslims have the right to fight them till the justice of islaam is applied within the land. And we know that women, children, seniors, worshippers in churches/synagogues etc. weren't allowed to be killed as the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him stated.

The government has 3 days to accept or reject the proposals, whereas the rulers of before would sometimes attack other nations without notice.


So the praise is for Allaah that we are muslims. :)

[iqbal_soofi]

:salamext:


It's not part of islaam to force people to become muslim ^ :)

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. [Qur'an 2:256]

People under the Islamic rule had only two options. 1. Pay Jazia (tax) or 2. become Muslim and get a share from Jazia paid by non Muslims. Muslims themselves didn't want everybody under them to become Muslims. They wanted more people to give jazia than the ones who shared the jazia. This is what happend in Spain. In the begining Muslims used to collect a huge jazia with which they built lavish palaces and buildings for themselves. Then the non-Muslims also started declaring one of their family members as a Muslim in order to get away with Jazia. The whole spain looked like a Muslim majority country. Then due to lack of income, the Muslims went weak. In these circumstances, the non-Muslims got a chance to revolt and push the weak Muslim rulers out of their country. The superficial Muslims converted back to their original religions the next day Muslim rulers were ousted.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


When the Bani Umayyah started getting attatched to the world ^ and started straying from the guidance revealed to Allaah's final Messenger, peace be upon him - they were placed under a severe trial.


The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said:

“This community of mine is a community blessed with mercy. It is not punished in the Hereafter. Instead, it is punished in this world with strife, instability, and bloodshed.” [Musnad Ahmad, Sunan Abî Dâwûd, and Mustadrak al-Hâkim] It is an authentic hadîth. It indicates that Allah has shown mercy on the Islamic community and that its punishment will be in this world instead of the Hereafter.

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...-al-oadah.html

[wilberhum]

Join, pay, or die. That's liberation? :?

[جوري]

what happens if you don't pay taxes here in the good ole U.S?

[- Qatada -]

Liberation of the people - yeah. :) Because they fight the government who is oppressive to its people, the one who didn't allow them to practise their own religion freely, and the one who charged them with heavy taxes etc. In other words, the super powers such as the Byzantinian Romans and the Sassanids etc. And countless other examples in history.

Therefore by fighting the government - they liberated the people by lightening their burdens and as stated many times throughout the thread - protecting their blood, honor and allowing them to practise their religion. So yes. :)

[wilberhum]

what happens if you don't pay taxes here in the good ole U.S?

Last time I checked, you can get free room and board.
I don't think it is covered under capital punishment though. :D
I don't know if we will have to start paying taxes to Mexico after the invasion or not. But I don't know how this relates.

[wilberhum]

Liberation of the people - yeah. :) Because they fight the government who is oppressive to its people, the one who didn't allow them to practise their own religion freely, and the one who charged them with heavy taxes etc. In other words, the super powers such as the Byzantinian Romans and the Sassanids etc. And countless other examples in history.

Therefore by fighting the government - they liberated the people by lightening their burdens and as stated many times throughout the thread - protecting their blood, honor and allowing them to practise their religion. So yes. :)

Using that logic, I can fully justify the Iraqi invasion. :skeleton:

[SATalha]

Using that logic, I can fully justify the Iraqi invasion. :skeleton:

The only thing is that the liberatorz are not so...just.:) Abu graib springs 2 mind! Sory didnt want 2 mention it.

[جوري]

Last time I checked, you can get free room and board.
I don't think it is covered under capital punishment though. :D
I don't know if we will have to start paying taxes to Mexico after the invasion or not. But I don't know how this relates.

jizya=tax --you pay as citizen protected under the Muslim empire...
when the evil brits a come a huffin and a puffin... chivalrous Muslim knights will go on their Arabian horses in the night to defend you while you sit at home sippin' tea
so in a way you get room and board with a bonus as you'll be free to walk your dog and it won't be limited from 7-10 in the AM....

peace!

[wilberhum]

izya=tax --you pay as citizen protected under the Muslim empire...

Where I come from, we call that "Protection Money". You give me money and I will protect you from me. :skeleton:

You are working on the opinion that they wanted the protection.
I'm sure that there were cases where that was true and they were glad.
I'm just as sure that there were cases where they considered those at the gate making the demand as the evil enemy.

[SATalha]

anyway iam realy glad that Islam spread so far, realy intresting read. Yeah bak home in b'desh the 2 main guys where Shajalal and Shaforan. I think but sadly there is alot of bidha that goes on near the graves:cry: :enough!: Makes me so angry and sad at the same time.

[جوري]

Where I come from, we call that "Protection Money". You give me money and I will protect you from me. :skeleton:

You are working on the opinion that they wanted the protection.
I'm sure that there were cases where that was true and they were glad.
I'm just as sure that there were cases where they considered those at the gate making the demand as the evil enemy.

I pay nearly someone's salary in taxes yearly... it feels unfair to me... considering how much of my life I sacrificed for my education and exactly the sort of undeserving people my money goes to, not to mention other governmental causes that don't suit my interest from wars to welfare programs to people whom are in fact able bodied and can get off their A$$ to go to work, who still at the end of the day come and give me grief because they think I am not entitled to my earnings... Do I complain? no I even pay a couple of extra hundreds to someone from H&R block to work on my forms and fork my money over...
These are the laws of this country to which I am a citizen and so I pay my dues...

peace

[wilberhum]

I pay nearly someone's salary in taxes yearly..

It is tough when you make vast sums of money. :exhausted
I also must bare this burden. :D
But what does this have to do with the thread? :?

[جوري]

Vast? Come pay my bills and then we can speak of vast...
and the point being... you don't like the concept of jizyah and I don't like the concept of taxes... but these are the laws of the land
Peace!

[SATalha]

well said now get bak 2 da topic....man i sound like a teacher

[wilberhum]

well said now get bak 2 da topic....man i sound like a teacher

Thanks teach. (LOL) Of course my request went by the way.
There is someone who always needs to put the last snip in. :D

Any way a good article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Praise be to Allaah if you look at the history of the khulafah in islaam, such as the companion and successor of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him. Umar ibn Al Khattaab once saw an old jewish man begging people for money, he asked the man why he was begging, and the guy said he did it because he needed to pay his jizya tax. So Umar ibn Al Khattaab said that from now on - anyone who can't pay the jizya tax due to poverty doesn't have to pay it, and he also allowed the old man to get the money he needed from the muslim treasury [bait ul maal.]


No wonder so much people became muslim at that time in our history, alhamdulillah. :)

[SATalha]

Great point allhamdullilah

[iqbal_soofi]

:salamext:


Praise be to Allaah if you look at the history of the khulafah in islaam, such as the companion and successor of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him. Umar ibn Al Khattaab once saw an old jewish man begging people for money, he asked the man why he was begging, and the guy said he did it because he needed to pay his jizya tax. So Umar ibn Al Khattaab said that from now on - anyone who can't pay the jizya tax due to poverty doesn't have to pay it, and he also allowed the old man to get the money he needed from the muslim treasury [bait ul maal.]


No wonder so much people became muslim at that time in our history, alhamdulillah. :)

Hazrat Umar ibn Khattaab was really a great man. He was bold and result oriented. He didn't impose Islam just to make his rule strong over the people. He did the opposite of it. He used Islam for the service of people. Unlike the religious scholars who use the people to serve Islam, he never used people like this. He applied Islam to give good service to the people under his rule. He did a lot of ijtehad by deviating from some of rules of Islam to provide justice and relief to the people under his rule. If somebody with his kind of approach comes to Muslims today, then a vast majority of Muslims will elect him as their representative. (We're discussing this issue in another thread).

This topic is about the spread of Islam in the sub-continent. Muslim rulers who ruled in the sub continent made great buildings for themselves including great mosques to become famous. But they didn't serve the people with Islam. Therefore, the people of the sub-continet especially the common Muslims became very poor in the Muslim rule. The rulers, their courtiers, the sufis and their allies made a lot of wealth. Their decendant are still enjoying a plenty of wealth and privilleges in many parts of the sub continent.

[SirZubair]

Men such as Haji Ali ( who was a Sufi.. a proper sufi ) helped spread islam in India.

After his death, some evil ( yes, Evil ) men decided to build a shrine ( In the Mahim Area ) so they could make an easy dollar here and there.

I visited the Haji Ali shrine to make dua for him, for all that he has done for Muslims in India. When i got there, i was unable to make dua for him, i couldn't wait to run away from there. The practises i saw happening were extremly disturbing.

Sufism is a joke in the subcontinents. But that doesn't mean Sufism itself a joke altogether. Just in the sub continents.

[iqbal_soofi]

Men such as Haji Ali ( who was a Sufi.. a proper sufi ) helped spread islam in India.

After his death, some evil ( yes, Evil ) men decided to build a shrine ( In the Mahim Area ) so they could make an easy dollar here and there.

I visited the Haji Ali shrine to make dua for him, for all that he has done for Muslims in India. When i got there, i was unable to make dua for him, i couldn't wait to run away from there. The practises i saw happening were extremly disturbing.

Sufism is a joke in the subcontinents. But that doesn't mean Sufism itself a joke altogether. Just in the sub continents.

So you admit that sufism is a joke atleast in the sub-continent?

Are you 100% sure things were any better before the death of Sufi Ali?

Do you know that it's the same culture on the shrines of other Sufis?

Have you ever wondered why do the same kind of evil people take over the shrines of Sufis in the sub-continent?

Have you read the history of Sufisim in the sub-continent?

Do you know that the ancestors of these evil people invited and promoted different Sufis in their areas? Don't you know the seat holders (called Gaddi Naheens) of the Sufis were the forefathers of the same evil people? The seat ownership of the shrines travels down to the same family?

[SirZubair]

Asalam alaikum,

So you admit that sufism is a joke atleast in the sub-continent?

I never denied it in the first place. From what i've witnessed, there is no Sufi in india. Just a bunch of people who indulge in Bida'h and try to cover up their sins by saying "we are sufis" and giving true sufis a bad name.

Are you 100% sure things were any better before the death of Sufi Ali?

From what i've heard of Sufi Ali, he was truly a man of god who did everything in his power to spread the Word of God and the Message of Prophet Muhammed. If he did commit any sins, i will pray for him that Allah swt overlooks it and grants him Heaven for all the good he has done.

Do you know that it's the same culture on the shrines of other Sufis?

In india you mean? Yes, i know.

Worldwide, not nessercerily.

Have you ever wondered why do the same kind of evil people take over the shrines of Sufis in the sub-continent?

Yes, because they are corrupted. It is as simple as A B C.

Have you read the history of Sufisim in the sub-continent?

No, i haven't. From what i've witnessed in India, i know for a fact that Sufism doesn't really exist in india... or in Pakistan. So i don't need to read a book about something which doesn't exist.

Do you know that the ancestors of these evil people invited and promoted different Sufis in their areas? Don't you know the seat holders (called Gaddi Naheens) of the Sufis were the forefathers of the same evil people? The seat ownership of the shrines travels down to the same family?

"He who practices Tasawwuf without learning Sacred Law corrupts his faith, while he who learns Sacred Law without practicing Tasawwuf corrupts himself. Only he who combines the two proves true."


I have nothing more to add to this discussion. I've said all i have to say.

Wa'salaam

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:salamext:


Praise be to Allaah if you look at the history of the khulafah in islaam, such as the companion and successor of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him. Umar ibn Al Khattaab once saw an old jewish man begging people for money, he asked the man why he was begging, and the guy said he did it because he needed to pay his jizya tax. So Umar ibn Al Khattaab said that from now on - anyone who can't pay the jizya tax due to poverty doesn't have to pay it, and he also allowed the old man to get the money he needed from the muslim treasury [bait ul maal.]


No wonder so much people became muslim at that time in our history, alhamdulillah. :)

:sl:

Great point bro Masha'Allaah.

Lets stay off of the sectarianism Insha'Allaah. It is enough a lesson on tasawwuf for us to merely read the biography of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyya, let alone Imam Ahmad.

[UshnaR]

Muhammad bin qasim was the one through which islam entered the sub-continent. It is said that Sindh is the gateway of islam, and he entered through Sindh to subcontinent.