As with CZ I turn to friends, family, people I think can help me.
Well, I can pray, but its just that I don't believe that there is anything there to hear it. In that respect, no, I've never found myself wishing that there was something there to hear my prayer.
As with CZ I turn to friends, family, people I think can help me.
I think what yanoorah's meant was a situation where you have no friends or family to turn to.
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
No, I can't say I do. I can still wish for things if I want, though.
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
Well, I can pray, but its just that I don't believe that there is anything there to hear it. In that respect, no, I've never found myself wishing that there was something there to hear my prayer.
I find these two statements rather perplexing.
If you know exactly that there is absolutely nothing out there to hear and/grant your wish/pray, whats the point of making the wish/pray?
Doesn't this mean that, buried deep inside (along with your "moral compass", as a certain other atheist said in another thread), there is possibly some acknowledgement for some sort of higher authority that can affect the outcome of things?
I've been meaning to ask Atheists this Question for the longest time, I'll just get straight to the point.
Who do u turn to in times of crisis, hardship? Where do u go when u cant handle the downs of life? Do u ever wish u could pray?
I talk to my dog. Or annoy my friends.
But no, seriously, this is a fair question and I would have to admit that it isn't so easy for an atheist as for a theist, turning to prayer etc. I do think that priests, imams, rabbis do provide a certain level of therapy for people in hard times, not too unlike what can be found outside the religious context from therapists or psychologists.
And though the saying "there are no atheists in foxholes" is not literally true (I know some such atheists in the military who have been under fire) it does contain a valid point; desperation and emotional hardship does tend to create believers, more than anything else actually. But that really isn't saying much, that the desperate reach for the irrational (as an atheist would see it), or try to grasp at something they wish was true (but isn't). They also may reach out to "psychics" and the like, or live in a blatant state of denial.
Last edited by Pygoscelis; 01-20-2011 at 03:43 AM.
If you know exactly that there is absolutely nothing out there to hear and/grant your wish/pray, whats the point of making the wish/pray?
Doesn't this mean that, buried deep inside (along with your "moral compass", as a certain other atheist said in another thread), there is possibly some acknowledgement for some sort of higher authority that can affect the outcome of things?
Sorry but no. We also make wishes when blowing out the candles on a birthday cake. That doesn't mean we think cakes have magic powers.
Also note that even if somebody does believe that wishing can make something happen, that doesn't necesarily imply a higher authority. It could be a psychic power or something. There was some book going around in popculture not too long ago claiming that if you wish hard enough you could make something true. Anybody remember the name of the book?
Last edited by Pygoscelis; 01-20-2011 at 03:46 AM.
Sorry but no. We also make wishes when blowing out the candles on a birthday cake. That doesn't mean we think cakes have magic powers.
But people who make wish blowing out the candles on a birthday cake do not do it because cakes have magic powers. They believe that the occasion is "special" for making wish. Anyway, this only confirm that people who make wish during birthday believe in some sort of higher authority that grants wish, even if they do not specify such authority. Otherwise, why making the wish?
And when you have absolute belief that there is absolutely no higher authority, that means everything works randomly (which in itself is contrary to the evidence as the universe is not random).
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Also note that even if somebody does believe that wishing can make something happen, that doesn't necesarily imply a higher authority. It could be a psychic power or something. There was some book going around in popculture not too long ago claiming that if you wish hard enough you could make something true. Anybody remember the name of the book?
So you believe in psychic power, but you don't believe that the universe is created?
Anyway, this only confirm that people who make wish during birthday believe in some sort of higher authority that grants wish, even if they do not specify such authority. Otherwise, why making the wish?
Because it is fun. And no, as I just noted, even if somebody truly believed it made a difference, that doesn't mean a higher authority necesarily. It could mean other things, such as the psychic powers example.
And when you have absolute belief that there is absolutely no higher authority, that means everything works randomly
That claim does not make sense.
So you believe in psychic power
Um, no. Read what I wrote again, because you apparently missed the point entirely.
I think what yanoorah's meant was a situation where you have no friends or family to turn to.
I wonder which words in her post imply that?
I find these two statements rather perplexing.
If you know exactly that there is absolutely nothing out there to hear and/grant your wish/pray, whats the point of making the wish/pray?
That may have been the point, since, being an atheist, I think wishing and praying are about as effective as each other. Wishing at birthdays is more of a traditional thing than anything else; by and large, only young children tend to think it actually works. It's a bit like this: if I am surprised or have some kind of accident, and I say "Oh my god!", does this express a latent awareness of a higher power, or am I just making a common idiomatic use of language?
I've been meaning to ask Atheists this Question for the longest time, I'll just get straight to the point.
Who do u turn to in times of crisis, hardship? Where do u go when u cant handle the downs of life? Do u ever wish u could pray?
I turn mainly to my family, if its too personal then I keep it within myself... it's difficult, but its my burden, and no one elses, to bear. I don't find any real solace in prayer, and I am able to pray when I want, I just haven't found it personally helpful.
I turn mainly to my family, if its too personal then I keep it within myself... it's difficult, but its my burden, and no one elses, to bear. I don't find any real solace in prayer, and I am able to pray when I want, I just haven't found it personally helpful.
I am intriqued.
when you pray, to whom you direct your pray?
Because it is fun. And no, as I just noted, even if somebody truly believed it made a difference, that doesn't mean a higher authority necesarily. It could mean other things, such as the psychic powers example.
I am sorry, but i find it stupid that people find making wish fun as you claim they don't even believe in higher authority.
I find it even more stupid that people believe in "psychic power" but do not believe that the universe is created.
That may have been the point, since, being an atheist, I think wishing and praying are about as effective as each other.
Tell me, how does this mechanism of wishing and praying work for atheists?
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
f I am surprised or have some kind of accident, and I say "Oh my god!", does this express a latent awareness of a higher power, or am I just making a common idiomatic use of language?
It shows that you were a christian at some point in your life.
If you are consistent with your belief as an atheist, certainly you would never use an expression to appeal to higher authority.
Um, are you purposefully being obtuse now, or do you not know that Hindu have a special religious thing for cows? Hence my remark "Holy Cow" being another case of a common phrase not actually meaning somebody believes it, like "Oh my God" (the example given).
I am intriqued.
when you pray, to whom you direct your pray?
A generalized God I guess, I can't really answer that fully because I'm not quite sure myself..just something higher then myself, something that could possibly provide me with some inner comfort/advice/etc..
m, are you purposefully being obtuse now, or do you not know that Hindu have a special religious thing for cows? Hence my remark "Holy Cow" being another case of a common phrase not actually meaning somebody believes it, like "Oh my God" (the example given).
I understand that Hindus regard cows as sacred, but as i said, I've never heard a hindu uttered "Holy cow", while I've heard endless christians exclaim "oh My God".
In any case, the origin of the expression "holy cow" was from either corlis archer or from batman. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_cow_%28expression%29
So, don't worry, no one would confuse you for a hindu even if you scream "holy cow".
Tell me, how does this mechanism of wishing and praying work for atheists?
It shows that you were a christian at some point in your life.
If you are consistent with your belief as an atheist, certainly you would never use an expression to appeal to higher authority.
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