The Non-Believers

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

Welcome to the forum @oceanbreeze

Thanks for your questions. If I may ask, what do you believe is the purpose of life??

Thank you for answering I honestly am not sure. In the past I thought that we are here to experience life and to learn, and to spread love. I know Islam says our purpose is to worship Allah; I am still trying to understand this concept.

I think one problem is that you see God as pure love. A good starting point would be to read about the 99 names that are attributed to Allah.

Another good thing to read about is the lives of the prophets, from Islamic sources. From Adam pbuh all the way up the prophet Muhammad pbuh. It may seem irrelevant to your concern but, I think it’ll help you understand the issue better along with understanding the religion overall.

Also, if you feel Islam is the truth, would it make sense to disbelieve in it because of its view towards disbileivers? That’s more of a rhetorical question.

There is wisdom behind everything Allah does, whether we understand it or not.

I think the problem is the transaltion,
Think covered as in the heart is covered from Truth, if the heart is covered from Truth it can not know love...
He explains how it works and warns us if we dont uncover our hearts to (Allaha) Truth and we will suffer eternal torment...

My personal take is people who open their hearts to Truth, who are kind and compassionate and merciful will be spared eternal torment or hell fire...But prayings reall handy if your a hopless sinner like my self, inshalla...

format_quote Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

He understand why people chose another religion and tried to live a life of goodness and peace? What about people like Gandhi who practiced compassion and nonviolence? What about people who genuinely care for helping the poor? Are they all really doomed?

Welcome to the forum.

First of all, one must try to know and understand what is the truth, what are the lies, for truth always leads towards the light from darkness.
Let's take the example of an institution (a school, a collage or University for example). Every institution has got its specific curriculum which one has to go through and pass all it's examinations and tests and specific assignments, before getting certified. If one can't pass the exam of that specific curriculum, he or she will have to spend years and years without getting promotion and certification from that specific institution. The attributes which you have mentioned for example in case of Gandhi and other people like him, yes they may have covered some of the chapters in partial of that specific curriculum but not as a whole, hence they cannot be certified.
Now coming back to what I said that truth leads towards light from darkness, Muhammad (PBUH) is mentioned in The Vedas, in The Bible and in the Puranas including both Gita and the Maha Bharat. Well thats another discussion, but what I want to say is that one's has to chose a curriculum for him or her first.
Allah has taught men step by step accordingly. And you can say that all that were brought by all the messengers of Allah were the chapters of the main curriculum. That is why Allah says in the Final book, The Quran:
"This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
So, if one wants to get certified by the institution of Allah SWT, one has to follow His complete curriculum and not only "the few chapters" of it.

Stay Blessed.

format_quote Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

but I have always believed that God is pure love.

Even if Allah were to forgive the "good" disbelievers (and I am saying this in theory) your concept of God is wrong.

format_quote Originally Posted by keiv

Also, if you feel Islam is the truth, would it make sense to disbelieve in it because of its view towards disbileivers? That’s more of a rhetorical question.

I am still trying to find the truth. There are many things I love about Islam, but this is the one issue that I have had trouble comprehending, as it does not seem merciful to me to send good and kind people to burn forever. But I am trying to keep an open mind on the issue.

format_quote Originally Posted by Supernova

Why you mention Gandi and not Jesus ?

I mentioned Gandhi because he is celebrated for being a powerful advocate for peace, love and tolerance. He would have rather died than defend himself with violence and he worked to bring people together. Yet he was primarily Hindu, though he appreciated the tenets of other religions including Islam. I use him as an example to ask how God could send such an amazing person to hell just for not being Muslim. I did not mention Jesus because I understand that Jesus is considered to be a great prophet in Islam and thus would not be sent to hell.

format_quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth

Even if Allah were to forgive the "good" disbelievers (and I am saying this in theory) your concept of God is wrong.

All right then, please enlighten me. Do you mean to tell me that God doesn't love us all?

format_quote Originally Posted by Saira Kahn

Welcome to the forum.

First of all, one must try to know and understand what is the truth, what are the lies, for truth always leads towards the light from darkness.
Let's take the example of an institution (a school, a collage or University for example). Every institution has got its specific curriculum which one has to go through and pass all it's examinations and tests and specific assignments, before getting certified. If one can't pass the exam of that specific curriculum, he or she will have to spend years and years without getting promotion and certification from that specific institution. The attributes which you have mentioned for example in case of Gandhi and other people like him, yes they may have covered some of the chapters in partial of that specific curriculum but not as a whole, hence they cannot be certified.
Now coming back to what I said that truth leads towards light from darkness, Muhammad (PBUH) is mentioned in The Vedas, in The Bible and in the Puranas including both Gita and the Maha Bharat. Well thats another discussion, but what I want to say is that one's has to chose a curriculum for him or her first.
Allah has taught men step by step accordingly. And you can say that all that were brought by all the messengers of Allah were the chapters of the main curriculum. That is why Allah says in the Final book, The Quran:
"This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
So, if one wants to get certified by the institution of Allah SWT, one has to follow His complete curriculum and not only "the few chapters" of it.

Stay Blessed.

Thank you for this. I'm still not sure how I feel, but your answer is clear to me.

format_quote Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

All right then, please enlighten me. Do you mean to tell me that God doesn't love us all?

The following is the islamic concept of God, believed by most except certain sects, it is quoted from Aqeedah at-Tahawiyah

نَقُولُ في تَوْحيدِ اللَّهِ مُعْتَقِدينَ، بـِتَوْفيقِ

We say about Allah's unity, believing by Allah's help that:

إِنَّ اللَّهَ تَعالى وَاحِدٌ لا شَرِيكَ لَهُ،

1. Allah is One, without any partners.

وَلا شَيْءَ مِثْلُهُ،

2. There is nothing like Him.

وَلا شَيْءَ يُعْجِزُهُ،

3. There is nothing that can overwhelm Him.

وَلا إِلهَ غَيْرُهُ،

4. There is no god other than Him.

قَدِيْمٌ بـِلا ابْتِدَاءٍ، دَائِمٌ بـِلا انْتِهَاءٍ،

5. He is the Eternal without a beginning and enduring without end.

لا يَفْنَى وَلا يَبـِيدُ،

6. He will never perish or come to an end.

وَلا يَكُونُ إِلا مَا يُرِيدُ،

7. Nothing happens except what He wills.

لا تَبْلُغُهُ الأَوْهامُ، وَلا تُدْرِكُهُ الأَفْهامُ،

8. No imagination can conceive of Him and no understanding can comprehend Him.

وَلا تُشْبـِهُهُ الأَنامُ

9. He is different from any created being.

حَيٌّ لا يَمُوتُ، قَيُّومٌ لا يَنامُ،

10. He is living and never dies and is eternally active and never sleeps.

خَالِقٌ بـِلا حَاجَةٍ، رَازِقٌ لَهُمْ بـِلا مُؤْنَةٍ،

11. He creates without His being in need to do so and provides for His creation without any effort.

مُمِيتٌ بـِلا مَخَافَةٍ، بَاعِثٌ بـِلا مَشَقَّةٍ.

12. He causes death with no fear and restores to life without difficulty.

مَازالَ بـِصِفَاتِهِ قَدِيماً قَبْلَ خَلْقِهِ. لَمْ يَزْدَدْ بـِكَوْنِهِمْ شَيْئاً لَمْ يَكُنْ قَبْلَهُمْ مِنْ صِفَاتِهِ، وَكَما كَانَ بـِصِفَاتِهِ أَزَلِيَّاً كَذلِكَ لا يَزَالُ عَلَيْهَا أَبَدِيَّاً.

13. He has always existed together with His attributes since before creation. Bringing creation into existence did not add anything to His attributes that was not already there. As He was, together with His attributes, in pre-eternity, so He will remain throughout endless time.

لَيْسَ مُنْذُ خَلَقَ الخَلْقَ اسْتَفَادَ اسْمَ الخَالِقِ، وَلا بـِإِحْدَاثِهِ البَرِيَّةَ اسْتَفَادَ اسْمَ البارِي

14. It was not only after the act of creation that He could be described as "the Creator" nor was it only by the act of origination that He could he described as "the Originator."

لَهُ مَعْنى الرُّبوبـِيَّةِ وَلا مَرْبوبٌ، وَمَعْنى الخَالِقِيَّةِ وَلا مَخْلوقٌ،

15. He was always the Lord even when there was nothing to be Lord of, and always the Creator even when there was no creation.

وَكَمَا أَنَّهُ مُحْيِـي المَوْتَى بَعْدَما أَحْيَاهُمْ، اسْتَحَقَّ هَذا الاسْمَ قَبْلَ إِحْيائِهِمْ، كَذلِكَ اسْتَحَقَّ اسْمَ الخَالِقِ قَبْلَ إِنْشَائِهِمْ،

16. In the same way that He is the "Bringer to life of the dead," after He has brought them to life a first time, and deserves this name before bringing them to life, so too He deserves the name of "Creator" before He has created them.

ذلِكَ بـِأَنَّهُ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيْرٌ، وَكُلُّ شَيْءٍ إِلَيْهِ فَقِيرٌ، وَكُلُّ أَمْرٍ عَلَيْهِ يَسيرٌ، لا يَحْتَاجُ إِلَى شَيْءٍلـــَيْسَ كَمِثـــْلِهِ شَيْءٌ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ البَصِيرُ

17. This is because He has the power to do everything, everything is dependent on Him, everything is easy for Him, and He does not need anything. "There is nothing like Him and He is the Hearer, the Seer." (al-Shura 42:11)

خَلَقَ الخَلْقَ بـِعِلْمِهِ،

18. He created creation with His knowledge.

وَقَدَّرَ لَهُمْ أَقْداراً،

19. He appointed destinies for those He created.

وَضَرَبَ لَهُمْ آجالاً،

20. He allotted to them fixed life spans.

لَمْ يَخْفَ عَلَيْهِ شَيْءٌ مِنْ أَفْعَالِهِمْ قَبْلَ أَنْ خَلَقَهُمْ، وَعَلِمَ مَا هُمْ عَامِلُونَ قَبْلَ أَنْ يَخْلُقَهُمْ،

21. Nothing about them was hidden from Him before He created them, and He knew everything that they would do before He created them.

وَأَمَرَهُمْ بـِطَاعَتِهِ وَنَهَاهُمْ عَنْ مَعْصِيَتِهِ،

22. He ordered them to obey Him and forbade them to disobey Him.
وَكُلُّ شَيْءٍ يَجْرِي بـِقُدْرَتِهِ وَمَشِيئَتِهِ. وَمَشِيئَتُهُ تَنْفُذُ، وَلا مَشِيئَةَ لِلْعِبَادِ إِلاَّ مَا شَاءَ لَهُمْ، فَمَا شَاءَ لَهُمْ كَانَ وَمَا لَمْ يَشَأْ لَمْ يَكُنْ.
23. Everything happens according to His degree and will, and His will is accomplished. The only will that people have is what He wills for them. What He wills for them occurs and what He does not will, does not occur.

يَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَعْصِمُ وَيُعَافِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ فَضْلاً، وَيُضِلُّ مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَخْذُلُ وَيَبْتَلِي عَدْلاً

24. He gives guidance to whomever He wills, and protects them, and keeps them safe from harm, out of His generosity; and He leads astray whomever He wills, and abases them, and afflicts them, out of His justice.

وكلهم يتقلبون في مشيئته ، بين فضله وعدله

25. All of them are subject to His will either through His generosity or His justice.

وَهُوَ مُتَعَالٍ عَنِ الأَضْدَّاد وَالأَنْدَاد

26. He is Exalted beyond having opposites or equals.

لا رَادَّ لِقَضَائِهِ، وَلا مُعَقِّبَ لِحُكْمِهِ، وَلا غَالِبَ لأَمْرِهِ،

27. No one can ward off His decree or delay His command or overpower His affairs.

آمَنَّا بِذلِكَ كُلِّهِ، وَأَيْقَنَّا أَنَّ كُلاًّ مِنْ عِنْدِهِ.

28. We believe in all of this and are certain that everything comes from Him.

وَإِنَّ مُحَمَّداً صلى الله عليه وسلم عَبْدُهُ المُصْطَفَى، وَنَبـِيُّهُ المُجْتَبَى، وَرَسُولُهُ المُرْتَضَى،

29. And we are certain that Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) is His chosen Servant and elect Prophet and His Messenger with whom He is well pleased,

خَاتِمُ الأَنْبـِيَاءِ وَإِمَامُ الأَتْقِياءِ، وَسَيِّدُ المُرْسَلِينَ، وَحَبـِيبُ رَبِّ العَالَمِينَ،

30. And that he is the Seal of the Prophets and the Imam of the godfearing and the most honored of all the messengers and the Beloved of the Lord of all the worlds.

وَكُلُّ دَعْوَةِ نُبُوَّةٍ بَعْدَ نُبُوَّتِهِ فَغَيٌّ وَهَوَى؛

31. Every claim to Prophet-hood after Him is falsehood and deceit.

وَهُوَ المَبْعُوثُ إِلى عَامَّةِ الجِنِّ وَكَافَّةِ الوَرَى، المَبْعُوثِ بـِالحَقِّ وَالهُدَى

32. He is the one who has been sent to all the jinn and all mankind with truth and guidance and with light and illumination.

وَإِنَّ القُرْآنَ كَلامُ اللَّهِ تَعَالى، بَدَأَ بـِلا كَيْفِيَّةٍ قَوْلاً، وَأَنْزَلَهُ عَلَى نَبـِيِّهِ وَحْياً، وَصَدَّقَهُ المُؤْمِنُونَ عَلَى ذلِكَ حَقَّــاً، وَأَيْقَنُوا أَنَّهُ كَلامُ اللَّهِ تَعَالَى بـِالحَقِيقَةِ. لَيْسَ بـِمَخْلُوقٍ كَكَلامِ البَرِيَّةِ، فَمَنْ سَمِعَهُ فَزَعَمَ أَنَّهُ كَلامُ البَشَرِ فَقَدْ كَفَرَ، وَقَدْ ذمَّهُ اللَّهُ تَعالَى وَعَابَهُ، وَأَوْعَدَهُ عَذابَهُ، حَيْثُ قَالَ:سَأُصْلِيهِ سَقَرَفَلَمَّا أَوْعَدَ اللَّهُ سَقَرَ لِمَنْ قَالَ:إِنْ هَذَا إِلَّا قَوْلُ الْبَشَرِعَلِمْنا أَنَّهُ قَوْلُ خَالِقِ البَشَرِ، وَلا يُشْبـِهُ قَوْلَ البَشَرِ،

33. The Qur'an is the word of Allah. It came from Him as speech without it being possible to say how. He sent it down on His Messenger as revelation. The believers accept it, as absolute truth. They are certain that it is, in truth, the word of Allah. It is not created as is the speech of human beings, and anyone who hears it and claims that it is human speech has become an unbeliever. Allah warns him and censures him and threatens him with Fire when He says, Exalted is He: "I will burn him in the Fire." (al-Muddaththir 74:26) When Allah threatens with the Fire those who say "This is just human speech" (74:25) we know for certain that it is the speech of the Creator of mankind and that it is totally unlike the speech of mankind.

وَمَنْ وَصَفَ اللَّهَ تَعَالَى بـِمَعْنَىً مِنْ مَعَانِي البَشَرِ فَقَدْ كَفَرَ، فَمَنْ أَبْصَرَ هَذا اعْتَبَرَ، وَعَنْ مِثْلِ قَوْلِ الكُفَّارِ انْزَجَرَ، وَعَلِمَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ تَعَالَى بـِصِفَاتِهِ لَيْسَ كَالبَشَرِ.

34. Anyone who describes Allah as being in any way the same as a human being has become an unbeliever. All those who grasp this will take heed and refrain from saying things such as the unbelievers say, and they will know that He, in His attributes, is not like human beings.

If any non Muslim does any good deeds he is rewarded in this life in form of wealth, fame & popularity etc as no good deed go waste but he has no share of reward in hereafter because despite knowing the truth i.e. Islam, he rejected it. He knows very well the outcome for rejecting the truth.

Don't think too much about other people like Gandhi, mother Teresa, G.B. Shaw and others. They knew what islam is and they knew what'd happen with them for not dying as a Muslim.
E.g. M.K. Gandhi studied Islam. He was an editor of a magazine 'Harijan'

In ‘Harijan’ (issue dated 27-07-1937), Gandhi advised his fellow Congressmen on leading a life of simplicity in this fashion:

“I cannot present before you the examples of Sri Ram Chandr and Sri Krishn as they are not personalities recognized by history. I cannot help but present to you names of Abu Bakar (ra) and Umar (ra). They were leaders of a vast empire, yet they lived a life of austerity".
http://www.ummid.com/news/2015/June/...liph-umar.html

They chose hell fire for themselves. And it's their personal matter, now you think about yourself, Do you want to burn in fire or not...?

Choice is yours.

- - - Updated - - -
@oceanbreeze

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

That's correct. In Islam the purpose of life is to worship Allah. My follow-up question is that after you've experienced life, learned, and spread love as you've believed, what are you meeting your lord with and where is it that you expect to go in the afterlife?

Well, I was taught that good people go to heaven/paradise. In recent years I rejected the idea of hell and believed that if you lead a bad life, God will send you back to live again until you make up for your sins. To me, this concept seems more merciful than having people suffer for eternity. But, I don't know what to believe now. What if I've been wrong? Or, what if I choose Islam and that turns out to be wrong? I just want my confusion to go away.

format_quote Originally Posted by axc

f any non Muslim does any good deeds he is rewarded in this life in form of wealth, fame & popularity etc as no good deed go waste but he has no share of reward in hereafter because despite knowing the truth i.e. Islam, he rejected it. He knows very well the outcome for rejecting the truth.

Don't think too much about other people like Gandhi, mother Teresa, G.B. Shaw and others. They knew what islam is and they knew what'd happen with them for not dying as a Muslim.
E.g. M.K. Gandhi studied Islam. He was an editor of a magazine 'Harijan'

In ‘Harijan’ (issue dated 27-07-1937), Gandhi advised his fellow Congressmen on leading a life of simplicity in this fashion:

“I cannot present before you the examples of Sri Ram Chandr and Sri Krishn as they are not personalities recognized by history. I cannot help but present to you names of Abu Bakar (ra) and Umar (ra). They were leaders of a vast empire, yet they lived a life of austerity".
http://www.ummid.com/news/2015/June/...liph-umar.html

They chose hell fire for themselves. And it's their personal matter, now you think about yourself, Do you want to burn in fire or not...?

Choice is yours.

So, would you say that Allah cares more about people acknowledging Him then He does about how we treat others and our planet?

format_quote Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

Well, I was taught that good people go to heaven/paradise. In recent years I rejected the idea of hell and believed that if you lead a bad life, God will send you back to live again until you make up for your sins. To me, this concept seems more merciful than having people suffer for eternity. But, I don't know what to believe now. What if I've been wrong? Or, what if I choose Islam and that turns out to be wrong? I just want my confusion to go away.



So, would you say that Allah cares more about people acknowledging Him then He does about how we treat others and our planet?

I think you are here for trolling.

Anyways, see the answer of your questions
http://islamhelpline.net/answer/1638...uqooq-ul-ibaad

https://islamqa.info/en/categories/t...0%2C2563688070

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

I think you are here for trolling.

Anyways, see the answer of your questions
http://islamhelpline.net/answer/1638...uqooq-ul-ibaad

https://islamqa.info/en/categories/t...0%2C2563688070

With respect, I am not trolling. I am trying to understand Islam and find God. If I have offended or annoyed you or anyone else on this forum in any way I apologize.

I will review the articles you have linked here. Thank you

In order to drive the point home, read the story of Abu Talib.

format_quote Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

So, would you say that Allah cares more about people acknowledging Him then He does about how we treat others and our planet?

It's not for any of us to say what Allah thinks. We're given commands and laws to live by. We're given guidance through the Quran and through the prophet pbuh. We also read of the messengers before him, and their people, to reflect on their stories. Ironically, history tends to repeat itself and there are many similarities of the pre-Islamic age going on today but I digress..