Can I follow the Old Testament in Islam?

[fschmidt]

I grew up atheist and later studied various religious texts and the Old Testament is my favorite. I have nothing against the Quran, but the Old Testament is simply my favorite and so I follow it.

I would like to join an existing religion. The reason is that I find modern culture to be evil and hostile, and I would like to associate with people who share at least some of my values. So let me consider the options.

Most people believe that Jews follow the Old Testament, but this is simply wrong. Today's Jews follow the Talmud which twists the Old Testament beyond recognition. A simple example is the prohibition of mixing meat and milk which can't be found in the Old Testament anywhere. But worse is the racism of Judaism which has no basis in the Old Testament. The religion of modern Judaism not only isn't based on the Old Testament but strongly conflicts with it, making it unworkable for me.

Some traditional Christian groups like the Puritans followed the moral ideas of the Old Testament. But most modern Christians reject the whole idea of moral law, which is horrifying to me. In my opinion, Christianity violates the Old Testament idea of "God is one" by making Jesus into a god. The basic principle of Christianity is accepting Jesus as a god, and this is something I could never do.

I know that the Old Testament is not part of Islam, but what little I know about Islam seems to be based on the same moral principles that the Old Testament stands for. When considering the Shahada "There is no god but God and that Muhammad is His messenger" I see 2 parts. The first part is the same as "God is one" in the Old Testament, so that certainly works for me. And for the second part, though I cannot judge the Quran myself, I also cannot deny that Muhammad has had a huge impact on the world and introduced God to many people, and I consider this to be good enough evidence that Muhammad is God's messenger. So I would have no problem saying the Shahada.

But even if I said the Shahada, my primary dedication would be to the Old Testament which I love. What would change is that I would consider muslims to be my people and I would give charity to them. And I would follow islamic rules within reason, especially in public. But I would still follow the Ten Commandments and keep the sabbath and study the Old Testament, not the Quran. So my question simply is, would this work?

 

[shafat10]

Hello there sir. Thank you for your question.

I would like to help you out with some prerequisite information that you need to know.

Firstly, many people have a misconception that Islam is a new religion and that Prophet Muhammad PBUH was the founder of this religion. In fact, that's not true. Islam isn't a new religion. Islam came in to existence since men set foot on the first, since time immemorial. And Prophet Muhammad PBUH isn't the founder of Islam, but he is the last Messenger of God.
Through time God has sent many Prophets and all Prophets' message was the same, to believe in one God, do not do idol worship, He has no partner and so on. But since God didn't find it fit to preserve those scriptures, hence he kept on sending new Messengers. But since Quran is the last and final revelation of God, hence it's not meant only for the Muslims or the Arabs, but it's meant for the whole of humanity and the message is to be followed till eternity.
If there's is something like old and new testament, then the Quran is the last and final testament.
If you do a comparative study, myself being a student of Comparative Religion, you will come to know that all books contains the same message, that believe in 1 God, believe He has no idols, worship Him alone and there is a last and final Messenger going to come. This was the message of all the books. You want to follow the old testament right? Great! If you really want to do that, then you need to follow Islam. Why? I will explain now. Read these please:
The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad"

It is a Hebrew quotation which means:

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]

The following verses are from the Book of Isaiah:

(ii) "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]

(iii) "I am Lord, and there is none else There is no God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45 : 5]

(iv) "I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]

(v) Judaism condemns idol worship in the following verses:

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Exodus 20:3-5]

(iv) A similar message is repeated in the book of Deuteronomy:

"Thou shalt have none other gods before me."

"Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that in the earth beneath, or that is in the water beneath the earth."

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God."
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 5:7-9]

In Judaism too, we find the same thread of monotheism, that is seen in other religions.

I hope that clarifies the God part.
So if you follow the old testament, then you automatically have to follow the Quran.

Now for Prophet Muhammad PBUH,


In Judaism too, we find the same thread of monotheism, that is seen in other religions.

(III) MUHAMMAD IN JEWISH SCRIPTURES (THE OLD TESTAMENT):

1) Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in the book of Deuteronomy:

a) God Almighty speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

b) Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is like Moses (pbuh):

i) Both had a father and a mother.

ii) Both were married and had children.

iii) Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime.

iv) Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment.

v) Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people.

vi) Both died a natural death.

c) Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons:

Ishmail and Isaac. The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

d) Words in the mouth:

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from God Almighty he repeated it verbatim.

Deuteronomy (18:18):

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

2) Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:

It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned saying, ‘Read this, I pray thee’; and he saith, ‘I am not learned’.

"When Archangel Gabriel commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying ‘Iqra’, he replied "I am not learned".

3) Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon

chapter 5 verse 16:

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehrace Bayna Jerusalem."

"His mouth is most sweet: ye, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughter of Jerusalem."

All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians (H Q. 61:6)

So after all these proofs brother, you have no excuse but to follow the last and final testament, the glorious Quran .

If you have a mobile, Nokia 1100 and Samsung Galaxy S6, which one will you use? Modern one of course.
So similarly, the Quran is the latest version of message from God.
I hope this helps. Any doubts feel free to ask.

 

[Karl]

"Can I follow the Old Testament in Islam?" No. If you follow the Torah then you would have to become Jewish. I don't know why you think the Talmud is wrong but the Torah right, they are so old both could be corrupted, who knows? There are many sects of Jews out there to choose from too, so you will find like minded people. But the Quran is better for it's simplicity. It's a book for all the people not just the religious scholars. The simple most straight forward way is usually the best way.

 

[Abz2000]

Muhsin khan translation:
nd We sent not (as Our Messengers) before you (O Muhammad SAW) any but men, whom We inspired, (to preach and invite mankind to believe in the Oneness of Allah). So ask of those who know the Scripture [learned men of the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], if you know not.

With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur'an), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.

Quran 16:43-44

If you mean, which laws should i follow, then it's obviously the Quran:

Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e.Muhammad SAW) whom they find written with them in the Taurat (Torah) (Deut, xviii, 15) and the Injeel (Gospel) (John xiv, 16), - he commands them for Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Taiyibat [(i.e. all good and lawful) as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.], and prohibits them as unlawful Al- Khaba'ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allah's Covenant), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad SAW), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Qur'an) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful.

Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah - to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He); It is He Who gives life and causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad SAW) who believes in Allah and His Words [(this Qur'an), the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and also Allah's Word: "Be!" - and he was, i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary)], and follow him so that you may be guided."
Quran 7:157-158

If you mean, can i refer to the previous scripture to understand what is (written/remains written bearing in mind possible edits) about a reference to the details of a Prophet which are touched upon but not detailed such as jonah pbuh or can i refer to it to ponder upon or analyze a certain ruling and how it was approached by the previous nations, such as the meats they avoided, then you'll increase in knowledge, bear in mind however that certain rulings have been updated and some were just pushed on them due to their incessant questioning when unnecessary:

And unto those who are Jews, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them the fat of the ox and the sheep except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone. Thus We recompensed them for their rebellion [committing crimes like murdering the Prophets, eating of Riba (usury), etc.]. And verily, We are Truthful.
Quran 6:146

Those among the Children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of Dawud (David) and 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). That was because they disobeyed (Allah and the Messengers) and were ever transgressing beyond bounds.
Quran 5:178

Bear in mind that it is recorded that the final messenger pbuh forbade the Muslims from intensively studying doctrines of other scriptures until they were firmly grounded in knowledge, once he had trained them and tempered them on the rulings and guidance of the final message he pbuh allowed them to delve further, by then they were mature and able to take on more challenging topics.

Below is a link to an article on the topic and science which you may find to be of much interest, the author does appear to have a particular disdain of over-immersion in the previous texts however he provides many hadith and references to scholarly opinions on the topic:



Here are some excerpts:
The Legislator only permitted narrating from them in his statement,*‘Relate from the Children of Isra’il, and there is no sin in that,’*concerning that which the intellect can conceive, but as for what the intellects find to be impossible, and it is deemed falsehood, and it is fairly obvious that it is a forgery – then it is not included in that.

https://islamicsciences.wordpress.com/2006/09/03/israiliyat-in-tafsir-shaykh-ahmad-shakirs-view/

 

[BlueOwl358]

I can't say much because I don't see much that I can speak of. You say you accept the Old Testament as the best scripture, but not why or how you came to this conclusion. You say you can accept Mohammad (pbuh) as a prophet, but not the revelation given to him, but not why or how to do this.

You are creating your own niches in different religions, expecting to fit in them because of small similarities, but religions are traditions that you must accept, and not just have a problem with saying their biggest declarations or having the same values. There were Jews at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) who accepted that he must be a prophet, but not his message, so they remained with their faith. There must of versions of Judaism that accept only the Old Testament as biblical canon. You would be more similar to such a person, rather than Muslims, because you would not be accepting their revelation, but something else. I simply cannot see the sense in this story.

I advise you to read the Quran and then judge it for yourself, since it seems that you have not yet done so, and then compare the two, because the Islamic faith accepts the Torah as an earlier revelation, but not currently pure enough to accommodate our needs, and thus we have a new revelation. If you only only the Shahadah, and not the faith itself, then you can't be a proper Muslim, and your declaration would not be properly accepted by anyone. You can't simply pick favorites and wander into a blacksmith shop while reading a merchant book, just because the blacksmith believes in trade and selling of goods.

"Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people, but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers." (Quran 5:44)

"And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ." (Quran 5:48)

 

[Insaanah]

I know that the Old Testament is not part of Islam, but what little I know about Islam seems to be based on the same moral principles that the Old Testament stands for. When considering the Shahada "There is no god but God and that Muhammad is His messenger" I see 2 parts. The first part is the same as "God is one" in the Old Testament, so that certainly works for me. And for the second part, though I cannot judge the Quran myself, I also cannot deny that Muhammad has had a huge impact on the world and introduced God to many people, and I consider this to be good enough evidence that Muhammad is God's messenger. So I would have no problem saying the Shahada.

But even if I said the Shahada, my primary dedication would be to the Old Testament which I love. What would change is that I would consider muslims to be my people and I would give charity to them. And I would follow islamic rules within reason, especially in public. But I would still follow the Ten Commandments and keep the sabbath and study the Old Testament, not the Quran. So my question simply is, would this work?

In a nutshell, no. But please note, that the Qur'an confirms the truth of what came before in the previous scriptures originally sent by God. You will be closer to them by following the Qur'an, than you will ever be by following a book that has been tampered with by men.

The old testament is obsolete. It is has been changed and corrupted by the hands of men. It contains false accusations against noble prophets of God - accusations such as incest against Lot (peace be on him), accusations of drunkenness against Noah (peace be on him), and adultery against David (peace be on him), inserted by unscrupulous humans. Such a book is no longer fit to be followed, and indeed now has been superceded by the Qur'an, which is the last and final scripture of God, the very words revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) via the angel Gabriel (peace be on him). It's message is for the entire world, until the world ends. It is because Allah has promised to preserve the Qur'an that there won't be any need for a new Prophet, because the message is, and will remain, intact. Thus it is fully preserved with no word in it coming from any human. It is 100% the word of God, unlike the other scriptures that we have with us today, that have been changed by humans - thus it supersedes the previous scriptures, while being a continuation, confirmation and culmination of the original message contained within them, in its last and final form. The Final Testament. It has no versions or editions. Millions of people from all over the world have it memorised and they all recite word for word the same thing. It contains the central message that God sent all the previous prophets with, and practical guidance on how to live, stories of previous prophets from which to learn lessons, warnings, rules, comfort, solace, good tidings, and in it God corrects misconceptions people may have about Him or His prophets. It tells us what has always been expected from humans since the beginning of time; what He told His prophets to teach people since the beginning. That message never changed. The essence of Islam is what always was, and has always been, the true and natural religion; the way of all the Prophets, the original and only message.

The prophets were sent by God to people throughout the ages, to convey His message to them, and with guidance to show people how He wants them to live and worship Him. Muslims believe in all the prophets Allah sent, and do not reject or blaspheme any of them, from Adam, to the last and final prophet, Muhammad, peace be on them all. They were the purest and noblest of humanity and were not divine in any way. Allah sent all the prophets with the same message and not different messages. The message was: to submit wholeheartedly to Allah and worship Him and Him alone, without any associates in, or parts to, His Exclusive Divinity, and to obey the prophet. They taught that people should be under no misperception that they can commit themselves to Allah as their Lord, and then combine this with accepting others as their Lord, or associating others in His Divinity, in whatever way. They taught that we should strive hard to translate our belief in the One True God into practice, by obeying Allah and the messengers He sent, who were also role models and examples for us, showing us practically how to put the guidance they were sent with into practice in our daily lives, explaining the scriptures, warning against wrong-doing, giving good tidings, and giving additional legislation from Allah.

The Qur'an has been translated into nearly every language. These are regarded as translations of the Qur'an, but not as the Qur'an itself, which is in Arabic, and has rhythm and poetic beauty. Any preconceived notion that you might have of a book should be put aside. This book is completely unique in every way; its content, arrangement, style, authorship, preservation, and memorisability, amongst other things. The Prophet's practice and directives (the Sunnah), as taught to him by God, have also been recorded and preserved, and must be followed along with the Qur'an.

So Islam is not a new faith, but is the same ultimate universal truth that God revealed to all the prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be on them), and the same thing they all taught. Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, the meaning loosely translating as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, places and peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.

With time, the message got forgotten or corrupted. So people started worshipping other gods along with Him, made idols, said that God begot a son, said that certain people were incarnations of God, some rejected belief in God altogether, while others elevated the status of some prophets to divine, or at the other end, rejected or blasphemed some of the prophets. Whenever God's message got distorted by people, or forgotten, a new messenger was sent, not with any new or changed message, but reinforcing the actual message that God sent all the messengers with, the actual core beliefs that people were taught from the beginning of humanity, confirming the true parts of previous teachings and scriptures, and correcting wrong beliefs and misconceptions that had crept in. God required that whenever He sent a new messenger, that messenger should be followed along with any new scripture given to him. This chain of messengers culminates in prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be on him), who is the last and final prophet and messenger. Since his prophethood, God's message is available unchanged and unadulterated, for the entire world, until the end of time. He wasn't sent as prophet and messenger for a specific group of people and specific time (e.g. as Moses and Jesus, peace be on them both, were to the Children of Israel), but he was sent for all the world, for all time, until the Day of Judgement. Thus he is the last, not first, prophet of Islam; a messenger to all mankind, for now, and for all time to come. He is the messenger who must now be followed, and the scripture given to him, the Qur'an, must be followed.

When considering the Shahada "There is no god but God and that Muhammad is His messenger" I see 2 parts. The first part is the same as "God is one" in the Old Testament, so that certainly works for me.

If you say you have no problem believing and accepting God, yet you reject the scripture He has sent, reject His words, His guidance, His instruction, preferring to follow what has now been corrupted by the hands of men, then the question arises, how much of an acceptance is that?

I have nothing against the Quran

Follow it then. It confirms the truth of what came before in the previous scriptures originally sent by God. You will be closer to them by following the Qur'an, than you will ever be by following a book that has been tampered with by men.

Peace.

 

[fschmidt]

I know more about Islam now than when I started this thread. I have read several books about Islam, read parts of the Quran, and I now attend my local Islamic Center every Friday evening. And at this point I see no reason why one can't follow the Old Testament in Islam.

It is human nature to be closed minded, to say "my way is the only way". But just because Muslims today ignore the Old Testament doesn't make following the Old Testament prohibited. I can find nothing in the Quran that prohibits following the Old Testament.

You may ask why I would do both. I follow the Old Testament because that is what inspires me. I am not inspired by the Quran. Without the Old Testament, I would be an atheist. So then why would I also follow the Quran? Because I know that while the Quran doesn't inspire me, it inspires many more people than the Old Testament does. I want to be among people who are inspired to do God's will even if the source of that inspiration is different from mine. And I am quite willing to follow the requirements of the Quran for this benefit.

I am still not sure what I want to do, but I wanted to post this here for feedback. If I become more serious about this, I will discuss it with the leaders of my local Islamic Center. I also see that several people here have answered "no" to my question, but none provided good evidence for their position.

 

[talibilm]

I know more about Islam now than when I started this thread. I have read several books about Islam, read parts of the Quran, and I now attend my local Islamic Center every Friday evening. And at this point I see no reason why one can't follow the Old Testament in Islam.

It is human nature to be closed minded, to say "my way is the only way". But just because Muslims today ignore the Old Testament doesn't make following the Old Testament prohibited. I can find nothing in the Quran that prohibits following the Old Testament.

You may ask why I would do both. I follow the Old Testament because that is what inspires me. I am not inspired by the Quran. Without the Old Testament, I would be an atheist. So then why would I also follow the Quran? Because I know that while the Quran doesn't inspire me, it inspires many more people than the Old Testament does. I want to be among people who are inspired to do God's will even if the source of that inspiration is different from mine. And I am quite willing to follow the requirements of the Quran for this benefit.

I am still not sure what I want to do, but I wanted to post this here for feedback. If I become more serious about this, I will discuss it with the leaders of my local Islamic Center. I also see that several people here have answered "no" to my question, but none provided good evidence for their position.

Are you going to follow this ?

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthre...rses&highlight=Can+I+follow+the+Old+Testament

 

[talibilm]

I grew up atheist and later studied various religious texts and the Old Testament is my favorite. I have nothing against the Quran, but the Old Testament is simply my favorite and so I follow it.

I would like to join an existing religion. The reason is that I find modern culture to be evil and hostile, and I would like to associate with people who share at least some of my values. So let me consider the options.

Most people believe that Jews follow the Old Testament, but this is simply wrong. Today's Jews follow the Talmud which twists the Old Testament beyond recognition. A simple example is the prohibition of mixing meat and milk which can't be found in the Old Testament anywhere. But worse is the racism of Judaism which has no basis in the Old Testament. The religion of modern Judaism not only isn't based on the Old Testament but strongly conflicts with it, making it unworkable for me.

Some traditional Christian groups like the Puritans followed the moral ideas of the Old Testament. But most modern Christians reject the whole idea of moral law, which is horrifying to me. In my opinion, Christianity violates the Old Testament idea of "God is one" by making Jesus into a god. The basic principle of Christianity is accepting Jesus as a god, and this is something I could never do.

I know that the Old Testament is not part of Islam, but what little I know about Islam seems to be based on the same moral principles that the Old Testament stands for. When considering the Shahada "There is no god but God and that Muhammad is His messenger" I see 2 parts. The first part is the same as "God is one" in the Old Testament, so that certainly works for me. And for the second part, though I cannot judge the Quran myself, I also cannot deny that Muhammad has had a huge impact on the world and introduced God to many people, and I consider this to be good enough evidence that Muhammad is God's messenger. So I would have no problem saying the Shahada.

But even if I said the Shahada, my primary dedication would be to the Old Testament which I love. What would change is that I would consider muslims to be my people and I would give charity to them. And I would follow islamic rules within reason, especially in public. But I would still follow the Ten Commandments and keep the sabbath and study the Old Testament, not the Quran. So my question simply is, would this work?

To become a good servant its important that the Servant LISTENS & IMPLEMENTS the orders and wishes of his Lord. there is a best example from Prophet Muhammad :saws: as Allah says and one very good example among many 100's of example is the the Prophet:saws: abiding to pray his salah towards Jerusalem as ordered by Allah though he liked & wished in his heart to pray towards the first Masjid on the Earth, The Kaaba built by his real fore father the most revered by All semitic religions Prophet Ibrahim ( Abraham ) untill many years when the permission was finally given after a period in Medina as seen in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDekSGAQRR4

This was a big test for him though Prophet was fair in his wish as kaaba deserved it more than Al Aqsa as Kabba was bulit by the forefather of Israel ( Jacob) ie Abraham - Ibrahim A.S (The covenant receiver of Chosen people for jews as claimed by the Jews ) before Al Aqsa at Jerusalem and also even was built even before the floods of Noah by Angels is come to known by hadiths.


So religion is not to do what we wish but to submit to the wish of our Creator Allah in all walks of life and submit to him which is the precise meaning of Islam. http://legacy.quran.com/3/83-85

 

[fschmidt]

Are you going to follow this ?

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthre...rses&highlight=Can+I+follow+the+Old+Testament

Thank you for giving me an opportunity to defend the Old Testament.

Deuteronomy 23:1 "No one who is emasculated or has his male organ cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD" - This was aimed at eunuchs of that time, but could probably also apply to modern transsexuals. It certainly doesn't apply to testicular cancer.

Timothy 2:11 - New Testament

Deuteronomy 23:2 "No one of illegitimate birth may enter the LORD's assembly" - Illegitimacy is a very serious offense, it completely destroys society. The Old Testament recognizes and rightly warns against it. Children should only be born in marriage.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 - This is an odd one that I don't really understand. But really, how often are women going to grab her husband's enemy's crotch? It just doesn't seem very applicable.

Mark 12:19 - New Testament

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 - Misrepresenting virginity is a very serious offense, and the harshest punishment is justified. All successful cultures in history have placed a high value on virginity.

Leviticus 12:5 - The idea of "unclean" here isn't "dirty" but rather to not have sex for some time after birth. I don't see anything wrong with this.

 

[talibilm]

Friend, I have already answered you at Ummah in post # 31 here http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthre...estament-in-Islam&highlight=the+old+testament


So if you want Piety with your Creator you have to follow his last orders, The Noble Quran Or if you want to follow your own wishes and its upto you. We have duty to remind you and show you

Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 461

Narrated Ubaidullah:
Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the Latestt? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!"

Noble Quran 2:256 '' There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. ''


Noble Quran 3:85 '' If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).''

 

[fromelsewhere]

[MENTION=30692]fschmidt[/MENTION], everybody here is telling you (rightfully) that there is no Torah in Islam. One follows the Qur'an in Islam. It's as simple as that. If you like the Torah but not the Talmud, then you are close to a sect in Judaism that is called "karaism". Ultimately, you have to decide which holy text you would like to follow. Following one or the other doesn't prevent you from having respect for the other religion. There are pros and cons to each religion. Good luck in making your choice.

 

[talibilm]

[SUP]Certain clarifications AFAIK

Most people believe that Jews follow the Old Testament, but this is simply wrong. Today's Jews follow the Talmud which twists the Old Testament beyond recognition. A simple example is the prohibition of mixing meat and milk which can't be found in the Old Testament anywhere. But worse is the racism of Judaism which has no basis in the Old Testament. The religion of modern Judaism not only isn't based on the Old Testament but strongly conflicts with it, making it unworkable for me.

Talmud was the alteration of Psalms ie Zaboor of Prophet Dawud or David A,S (Pbuh) which the Jews did and were accustomed to do as claimed in the Noble Quran.

Some traditional Christian groups like the Puritans followed the moral ideas of the Old Testament. But most modern Christians reject the whole idea of moral law, which is horrifying to me. In my opinion, Christianity violates the Old Testament idea of "God is one" by making Jesus into a god. The basic principle of Christianity is accepting Jesus as a god, and this is something I could never do.

Agreed here no wonder many Jewish sites classify Trintarian Christians as Polytheists

I know that the Old Testament is not part of Islam,

This is partly wrong we have to believe it came from the Same source , Allah , our Creator [/SUP][SUP] & not believing it a Muslim becomes a Kafir (A rejector of Articles of Faith) but we could not believe more than what it coincides with the Noble Quran. so for details see the post no # 1 on verse 10:94 here

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?424656-MISQUOTED-Noble-Quran-verses-by-Apologetics&

but what little I know about Islam seems to be based on the same moral principles that the Old Testament stands for. When considering the Shahada "There is no god but God and that Muhammad is His messenger" I see 2 parts. The first part is the same as "God is one" in the Old Testament, so that certainly works for me. And for the second part, though I cannot judge the Quran myself, I also cannot deny that Muhammad has had a huge impact on the world and introduced God to many people, and I consider this to be good enough evidence that Muhammad is God's messenger. So I would have no problem saying the Shahada.

But even if I said the Shahada, my primary dedication would be to the Old Testament which I love. What would change is that I would consider muslims to be my people and I would give charity to them. And I would follow islamic rules within reason, especially in public. But I would still follow the Ten Commandments and keep the sabbath and study the Old Testament, not the Quran. So my question simply is, would this work?

While Noble Quran arrived many of the Jews were on the same path of the Christians taking Ezra as the son of God. But they recouped BACK to Monotheism when the Noble Quran exposed this error and also they frequently fought with Christians blaming that they had copied their books ( NT ) from them (jews) & also regularly blasphemed Mary & his son (May Allah forgive ) with but they were calmed after the Testimony of the Noble Quran that Jesus was indeed the Messiah and was miraculously born to Virgin & Chaste Mary and offered better terms to the Christians and you both called your books as the OLD & NEW testaments and your quarrels receded.

This thread could elaborate my analogy of our books including Torah & Injeel ( The OT & NT) in post # 2 & 25[/SUP]

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthre...Allah-and-why&highlight=yahweh+replaced+allah


Noble Quran 3:84 ''Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."

 

[azc]

No, brother, now Only Quran is to be followed.

 

[*charisma*]

I know more about Islam now than when I started this thread. I have read several books about Islam, read parts of the Quran, and I now attend my local Islamic Center every Friday evening. And at this point I see no reason why one can't follow the Old Testament in Islam.

It is human nature to be closed minded, to say "my way is the only way". But just because Muslims today ignore the Old Testament doesn't make following the Old Testament prohibited. I can find nothing in the Quran that prohibits following the Old Testament.

You may ask why I would do both. I follow the Old Testament because that is what inspires me. I am not inspired by the Quran. Without the Old Testament, I would be an atheist. So then why would I also follow the Quran? Because I know that while the Quran doesn't inspire me, it inspires many more people than the Old Testament does. I want to be among people who are inspired to do God's will even if the source of that inspiration is different from mine. And I am quite willing to follow the requirements of the Quran for this benefit.

I am still not sure what I want to do, but I wanted to post this here for feedback. If I become more serious about this, I will discuss it with the leaders of my local Islamic Center. I also see that several people here have answered "no" to my question, but none provided good evidence for their position.

From your first post, you are by definition a muslim. I mean since you believe in the shahada.

Now in regards to the old testament, I can understand that you'd want to follow that because perhaps you connect with it more and are a lot more familiar with it. I want to point out though that the 10 commandments in the old testament are also teachings in Islam. My suggestion is to compare and contrast the two because essentially if they have the same teachings then maybe you can start having more of a connection with Islam knowing that it's not that far off from what you already believe in. The only issue with following the old testament is believing in that which contradicts with the quran. For example, from my knowledge (and I personally can't say I know much about the old testament) the prophets the old testament are portrayed as sinful (such as being adulterators, magicians, etc.), whereas in Islam the prophets are sinless. So then you'd have to ask yourself which is closer to your beliefs? If it's the latter, then perhaps that's pointing you towards the teachings of the Quran more, and you should just start studying that.

Now for any beginner when it comes to learning Quran, it can sometimes be a bit difficult to understand because not everything is linear as it is in the bible. For example, Genesis explains how GOd created the world by detailing consecutive events, whereas in the Quran, the verses are organized a bit differently. So I can see how if you've only read a part of the quran, you can lose some connection, whereas the bible can get straight to the point and lay it out in a story-like form. Therefore, I think something that can prove to be a great starting point is Ibn Kathir's Stories of the Prophets. Here's a pdf version of it: http://www.islamguiden.com/arkiv/stories_of_the_prophets.pdf

If you read through this, you'll probably have a clearer idea of what your beliefs really coincide with.

 

[aaj]

I know more about Islam now than when I started this thread. I have read several books about Islam, read parts of the Quran, and I now attend my local Islamic Center every Friday evening. And at this point I see no reason why one can't follow the Old Testament in Islam.

It is human nature to be closed minded, to say "my way is the only way". But just because Muslims today ignore the Old Testament doesn't make following the Old Testament prohibited. I can find nothing in the Quran that prohibits following the Old Testament.

If you are looking for associating with a group then any group is fine. But if you are looking for the truth then you won't find it in the old books, but rather in the most updated Testament, the Quran.

The Torah and Gospel were originally from Allah, may He be exalted, and we are obliged to believe in them because Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):


“Say (O Muslims), ‘We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibraaheem (Abraham), Ismaa‘eel (Ishmael), Ishaaq (Isaac), Ya‘qoob (Jacob), and to Al-Asbaat (the twelve sons of Ya‘qoob (Jacob)), and that which has been given to Moosa (Moses) and ‘Eesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)’”


But the Torah and Gospel were subjected to distortion and changes. Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):


“Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby” [al-Baqarah 2:79].



Because of this distortion and the mixing of truth with falsehood in these two Scriptures, it is prohibited to study them.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abdullah (may Allah be pleased with him) that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him) came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with some written material he had got from one of the people of the Book. He read it to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and he got angry and said: “Are you confused (about your religion), O son of al-Khattaab? By the One in Whose hand is my soul, I have brought it (the message of Islam) to you clear and pure. Do not ask them about anything, lest they tell you something true and you disbelieve it, or they tell you something false and you believe it. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, if Musa (Moses) were alive, he would have no option but to follow me.”

https://islamqa.info/en/209007

 

[goodwill]

I grew up atheist and later studied various religious texts and the Old Testament is my favorite. I have nothing against the Quran, but the Old Testament is simply my favorite and so I follow it.

I would like to join an existing religion. The reason is that I find modern culture to be evil and hostile, and I would like to associate with people who share at least some of my values. So let me consider the options.

Most people believe that Jews follow the Old Testament, but this is simply wrong. Today's Jews follow the Talmud which twists the Old Testament beyond recognition. A simple example is the prohibition of mixing meat and milk which can't be found in the Old Testament anywhere. But worse is the racism of Judaism which has no basis in the Old Testament. The religion of modern Judaism not only isn't based on the Old Testament but strongly conflicts with it, making it unworkable for me.

Some traditional Christian groups like the Puritans followed the moral ideas of the Old Testament. But most modern Christians reject the whole idea of moral law, which is horrifying to me. In my opinion, Christianity violates the Old Testament idea of "God is one" by making Jesus into a god. The basic principle of Christianity is accepting Jesus as a god, and this is something I could never do.

I know that the Old Testament is not part of Islam, but what little I know about Islam seems to be based on the same moral principles that the Old Testament stands for. When considering the Shahada "There is no god but God and that Muhammad is His messenger" I see 2 parts. The first part is the same as "God is one" in the Old Testament, so that certainly works for me. And for the second part, though I cannot judge the Quran myself, I also cannot deny that Muhammad has had a huge impact on the world and introduced God to many people, and I consider this to be good enough evidence that Muhammad is God's messenger. So I would have no problem saying the Shahada.

But even if I said the Shahada, my primary dedication would be to the Old Testament which I love. What would change is that I would consider muslims to be my people and I would give charity to them. And I would follow islamic rules within reason, especially in public. But I would still follow the Ten Commandments and keep the sabbath and study the Old Testament, not the Quran. So my question simply is, would this work?

Would you say that part of following the Old Testament involves recognizing the Messiah predicted in its pages?

 

[fschmidt]

Would you say that part of following the Old Testament involves recognizing the Messiah predicted in its pages?

No. I have looked at the passages that Christians always point to, and in Hebrew it is clear that they are misinterpreting these passages.

 

[goodwill]

No. I have looked at the passages that Christians always point to, and in Hebrew it is clear that they are misinterpreting these passages.

Do you believe that Muslims also misinterpret the Hebrew Scriptures since they agree with Christians that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah?

 

[greenhill]

I have learnt that since Adam pbuh, Allah has sent down messengers to people to remind them of the messages. Most messengers would repeat the messages of the previous one(s) and at certain points, incremental points were delivered as and when human 'maturity' was able to accept and embrace those points of learning..

Psalms taught in essence the 'tauhid' meaning about Allah, prayers, and praises etc and the Torah added the human dynamics like to do unto others what one would expect others to do unto him. The Injeel (as said by Jesus pbuh) reaffirmed the message of past and added 'forgiveness' to the message (hard concept to grasp especially when 'an eye for an eye' is practiced) and when it is fully accepted, the time was ripe for the Quran to be introduced which added the laws about living in a community.

How can we live peacefully in a community if we do not have the concept of forgiveness?

So to stop or to follow any message before the Quran means you would not have the complete message as each had incremental teachings to impart.

Just my humble opinion.


eace: