[EMBRYOLOGY] Bones and flesh

[BleroX]

Assalamu alykum,
You know for sure the following verse:
Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be God, the best to create! (23:14).
I showed some people the verse and they said that in fact muscles develop before (or at the same) the bones.

So what's wrong ?

 

[BleroX]

up please

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I showed some people the verse and they said that in fact muscles develop before (or at the same) the bones.

maybe its because im half asleep, but how does that contradict the verse?

 

[Whatsthepoint]

maybe its because im half asleep, but how does that contradict the verse?

Because it says Allah maketh the bones and then clotheth them with flesh(which is basically muscles), whereas BleroX claims the flesh develops before/simoltaniously with the bones. The verse suggests the flesh comes after or at the same time as the bones, so perhaps there's no contradiction...

 

[BleroX]

Scientifically speaking, Do muscles come before or after bones ?

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Because it says Allah maketh the bones and then clotheth them with flesh(which is basically muscles), whereas BleroX claims the flesh develops before/simoltaniously with the bones. The verse suggests the flesh comes after or at the same time as the bones, so perhaps there's no contradiction...

Let me revise this.
The verse say Allah clothes the bones with flesh, which may suggest the bones are totally formed before any formation of muscles takes place...

 

[sur]

Assalamu alykum,
You know for sure the following verse:
Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be God, the best to create! (23:14).
I showed some people the verse and they said that in fact muscles develop before (or at the same) the bones.

So what's wrong ?

OK, little attension plz:-
Quran doesn't speak med lingo spoken by docs today;

Bones r bones whether formed of plastic, metal, calcium compound or cartilage. Right!!!!



Many CARTILAGE bones r formed before muscles r wraped. These r called "Long Bones" or "Endochondral Bones". Like Femur(Thigh Bone), Tibia & Fibula(Shin Bones), Humerous(Arm Bone), Radius & Ulna(Bones in Forearm), Hip-bones.

Cartilage-Bones look exactly like bones, only material they r made of does NOT have calcium yet.

Then these cartilage bone models r CALCIFIED & calcium compound called Hydroxy Appetite deposits in them so final calcified-bones r formed.


While there r some bones that r formed at same time muscles r formed & NOT after muscles. These r called "flat bones" or "Membranous Bones". Like Vertebrae, scapula.

So if u believe that only calcified bones deserve to be called as "BONES" & cartilage bones don't deserve it. So that'd be taking sides unjustly.

So Quran refer to BONES made of cartilage.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

lol...

 

[sur]

may i ask what was the funny part.?

 

[Anwarica]

Have a look at this video and notice "the microscopic level" .. they need to update their info. anyhow because that was an old issue.

 

[sur]

i don't have good speed internet to watch videos, so could u explain video a bit ??? i mean what's the conclusion from video.

Thx.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

i don't have good speed internet to watch videos, so could u explain video a bit ??? i mean what's the conclusion from video.

Thx.

They concluded the Quran is in perfect ahrmony with the modern science. what a shock, ain't it?
Otherwise, they basically said what you said about cartilage bones and tissue. However, they omited the "flat bones"...
Oh, they also quoted Keith L. Moore.....

 

[sur]

They concluded the Quran is in perfect ahrmony with the modern science. what a shock, ain't it?
Otherwise, they basically said what you said about cartilage bones and tissue. However, they omited the "flat bones"...
Oh, they also quoted Keith L. Moore.....

Thx.

Book of Keith L. Moore r taught to medical students in med schools all over world. He's an authority on embryology. He teaches in Canada i think.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Thx.

Book of Keith L. Moore r taught to medical students in med schools all over world. He's an authority on embryology. He teaches in Canada i think.

He may be, his (and one other guy's) anatomy book is supposed to be the most popuar of all the anatomy books in the world.
I don't know whether he is an authority in the field of embryology. The video quotes his book saying the bones get their familiar shape in the seventh week whereupon the muslces take there position around the bone forms. This is a simple, general explanation, Moore mostly writes text books, which might be the cause for it. And the text omits membranous bones, it doesn't say the bones are not actual bones, as tehy do not have calcium yet...

 

[جوري]

why should the Quran get into such a specific on embryology or any other field for that matter? It is meant to ask you to reflect not memorize multiple tissues derived from all three germ layers for your board exams.
Come on, that is absurd...
I don't particularly care to dwell on the science of the Quran, the poetry of the Quran, the numerology of the Quran, the rules of grammar in the Quran, the biblical stories in the Quran, the prophetic signs of the Quran, the laws of inheritance in the Quran, the rules of economics in the Quran, how to establish a Govt. in the Quran.. then you'll have missed the point of what it is all about. It is meant as a guidance and a counsel for how you should live your life.. and it does it on many levels.. it need not be any more clear or any more vague than what it is. There will be those completely satsifed with the book and there will be those who always want to split hair..

I think that too is part of its intrigue, as their are verses to denote some will indeed question 'what did God want with that allegory'?..
each will make of it what he/she will.. and there will come the day when we shall all find out the truth, one way or the other..

peace

 

[wilberhum]

why should the Quran get into such a specific on embryology or any other field for that matter? It is meant to ask you to reflect not memorize multiple tissues derived from all three germ layers for your board exams.
Come on, that is absurd...
I don't particularly care to dwell on the science of the Quran, the poetry of the Quran, the numerology of the Quran, the rules of grammar in the Quran, the biblical stories in the Quran, the prophetic signs of the Quran, the laws of inheritance in the Quran, the rules of economics in the Quran, how to establish a Govt. in the Quran.. then you'll have missed the point of what it is all about. It is meant as a guidance and a counsel for how you should live your life.. and it does it on many levels.. it need not be any more clear or any more vague than what it is. There will be those completely satsifed with the book and there will be those who always want to split hair..

I think that too is part of its intrigue, as their are verses to denote some will indeed question 'what did God want with that allegory'?..
each will make of it what he/she will.. and there will come the day when we shall all find out the truth, one way or the other..

peace

I'm in total agreement with a Muslim about the Quran. :skeleton:
I would have never guessed. To top it off I'm in agreement with PA. That in it's self amazing.

A holy book should be about how to live not how many times a word is used or twist things to mean different than there intent.

Like "Verse of Quran calculated spee dof light".

 

[جوري]

I'm in total agreement with a Muslim about the Quran. :skeleton:
I would have never guessed. To top it off I'm in agreement with PA. That in it's self amazing.

A holy book should be about how to live not how many times a word is used or twist things to mean different than there intent.

I have been running a low grade fever for the past three to four days.. I had to do a double take on that post, just to make sure my eyes aren't betraying me...

ohhhhh this is a cold day in hell ;D

peace

 

[Trumble]

I'm in total agreement with a Muslim about the Quran. :skeleton:
I would have never guessed. To top it off I'm in agreement with PA. That in it's self amazing.

Likewise. It's amazing what can happen when people talk sense...

 

[aamirsaab]

I showed some people the verse and they said that in fact muscles develop before (or at the same) the bones.

Just thought I'd pop in my two cents:

''...The shape of the skeleton determines the general appearance of the embryo in the bones stage during the 7th week; muscles do not develop at the same time but their development follows soon after. The muscles take their positions around the bones throughout the body and therefore Clothe the bones. Thus, the muscles take their well known forms and strcutures... The stage of clothing with muscle occurs during the 8th week..." (Keith L. Moore, Developing Human, 3 . edition, W. B. Saunders Company, 1982, p 364a)



p.s; incase you aren't aware, the excerpt I gave backs up the ayat. Meaning, that the ayat is correct from a scientific point of view.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Just thought I'd pop in my two cents:

''...The shape of the skeleton determines the general appearance of the embryo in the bones stage during the 7th week; muscles do not develop at the same time but their development follows soon after. The muscles take their positions around the bones throughout the body and therefore Clothe the bones. Thus, the muscles take their well known forms and strcutures... The stage of clothing with muscle occurs during the 8th week..." (Keith L. Moore, Developing Human, 3 . edition, W. B. Saunders Company, 1982, p 364a)



p.s; incase you aren't aware, the excerpt I gave backs up the ayat. Meaning, that the ayat is correct from a scientific point of view.

That's great. Now, can you provide a quote from some other book, preferably one not written by an islam-admirer?

and anyway, the embrionic development is not as black and white as "bones come first, then come the muscles". There are different types of bones and muscles that start forming at different times, there are different stages of bone and muscle formation. ( which leaves as with a question what is a bone, what is a muscle? when is it formed? A what stage does it become a bone...:hiding
Even muslims in this thread pointed out that certain bone and muscle tissues are formed simultanously, whereas in some cases bones come first.