Female honey bee? Arabic word?

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kay106

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Salam,

This has been troubling me a lot lately.

Can someone please explain to me that on verse 16:68,69. The worker bee is refered to a female bee, can someone please explain to me how? someone has told me that kulli and fasluki is a femanine gender, can someone please explain to me how? is there any book on this type of grammer.

Thanks
 
I always saw it as how language is for certain words - like how in french you have feminine and masculine words - i.e. la table, le crayon etc?
 
Female worker bee?

Salam,

This has been troubling me a lot lately.

Can someone please explain to me that on verse 16:68,69. The worker bee is refered to a female bee, can someone please explain to me how? someone has told me that kulli and fasluki is a femanine gender, can someone please explain to me how? is there any book on this type of grammer.

Thanks
 
Thanks for all your support guys. Alahamdullilah I think I have found the answer.

Performed the Asr Salah, made some dua, picked up a random tafsir, where it was talking about butuniha, two pages later, it was talking about the verses 16:68,69, then noticed that Butuniha, i have seen on the medina university arabic books, that something with a HA is female. So Butuniha is female, then noticed that the verse says
"From their bellies", when you read the complete verse:

16:68] And your Lord inspired the bee: build homes in mountains and trees, and in (the hives) they build for you.

[16:69] Then eat from all the fruits, following the design of your Lord, precisely. From their bellies comes a drink of different colors, wherein there is healing for the people. This should be (sufficient) proof for people who reflect.


So this is saying that the bees who eats from all the fruits, they are the ones who produces honey in their belly. The belly is a femanine gender, I am sure it is, do correct me where I go wrong.
 
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kay106 said:
Performed the Asr Salah, made some dua, picked up a random tafsir, where it was talking about butuniha, two pages later, it was talking about the verses 16:68,69, then noticed that Butuniha, i have seen on the medina university arabic books, that something with a HA is female. So Butuniha is female, then noticed that the verse says
"From their bellies", when you read the complete verse:

16:68] And your Lord inspired the bee: build homes in mountains and trees, and in (the hives) they build for you.

[16:69] Then eat from all the fruits, following the design of your Lord, precisely. From their bellies comes a drink of different colors, wherein there is healing for the people. This should be (sufficient) proof for people who reflect.


So this is saying that the bees who eats from all the fruits, they are the ones who produces honey in their belly. The belly is a femanine gender, I am sure it is, do correct me where I go wrong.
Click to expand...

Actually belly is Batn (masculine gender). Botoon is the plural. Botooniha means 'their bellies.'

In Arabic, the plural form of any noun which is not intelligent, (Animals count as non-intelligent. So do bellies:smile:) is usually treated as a singular feminine noun. There are exceptions, even in the Quran but this is the general rule.

You may have noticed that botooniha is translated as 'their bellies' while the 'ha' at the end of botooniha is also of the singular feminine form. Technically, this could also be translated as 'her bellies', but
a, that doesn't make sense and
b, you can tell from the context that it refers to the species of bees as a whole and not to one female bee.
 
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kay106 said:
Salam,

This has been troubling me a lot lately.

Can someone please explain to me that on verse 16:68,69. The worker bee is refered to a female bee, can someone please explain to me how? someone has told me that kulli and fasluki is a femanine gender, can someone please explain to me how? is there any book on this type of grammer.

Thanks
Click to expand...

An-Nahl is 'Ism ul-Jins' or 'species name'. It can be used to give both singular and plural meaning. (Sort of like 'sheep' in English being used both for plural and singular) The use of kulli, fasluki and other singular feminine forms shows that it is being used in the plural meaning, as singular feminine form is used for plurals of non-intelligent nouns.

I hope somebody understood this. Grammar is tricky, confusing and difficult to explain.
 
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So is it female bees or not?
Also nahli, on the start of the verse is that masculine or femanine?
 
kay106 said:
So is it female bees or not?
Click to expand...
Its plural = bees, no attached gender in meaning, though every noun has a gender according to conjugation in Arabic.
kay106 said:
Also nahli, on the start of the verse is that masculine or feminine?
Click to expand...
It is masculine according to conjugation, but plural, no attached gender in meaning.

What this means is that the bees are NOT feminine.
 
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so butuniha is correctly translated as "their female bellies" according to context?

Are you saying that the bees are not female, the ones that build the cells, gather food, and produce honey?
 
kay106 said:
so butuniha is correctly translated as "their female bellies" according to context?

Are you saying that the bees are not female, the ones that build the cells, gather food, and produce honey?
Click to expand...

a, the bees are not female.
b, the butun aren't female either.

The correct translation according to context is 'their bellies'. Your translation is absolutely correct.

What you are confusing is the ha. Butooniha is written like this :
ﺑﻂﻮﻨﻫﺎ
This 'ha' at the end, is a pronoun, singular feminine in form but translating to plural (them). This pronoun coupled with the previous noun (bellies) indicates possession. So, butoon = bellies, ha = their, butooniha = their bellies.

You are confusing this type of ha with the other type which feminizes a noun. That one occurs in writing in these four forms
ة ه ﻪ ﺔ
It is usually referred to as the Taa Marboota

A noun like Nahl is masculine. Adding a Taa marboota at the end (Nahlah) makes it feminine.
ﻨﺤﻞ
Nahl means male bee
ﻨﺤﻟﺔ
Nahlah means female bee

Like I said, grammar is confusing and large doses can be hazardous to mental health. If you don't get it, don't worry. This isn't really beginner level grammar.
 
Faye said:
a, the bees are not female.
b, the butun aren't female either.

The correct translation according to context is 'their bellies'. Your translation is absolutely correct.

What you are confusing is the ha. Butooniha is written like this :
ﺑﻂﻮﻨﻫﺎ
This 'ha' at the end, is a pronoun, singular feminine in form but translating to plural (them). This pronoun coupled with the previous noun (bellies) indicates possession. So, butoon = bellies, ha = their, butooniha = their bellies.

You are confusing this type of ha with the other type which feminizes a noun. That one occurs in writing in these four forms
ة ه ﻪ ﺔ
It is usually referred to as the Taa Marboota

A noun like Nahl is masculine. Adding a Taa marboota at the end (Nahlah) makes it feminine.
ﻨﺤﻞ
Nahl means male bee
ﻨﺤﻟﺔ
Nahlah means female bee

Like I said, grammar is confusing and large doses can be hazardous to mental health. If you don't get it, don't worry. This isn't really beginner level grammar.
Click to expand...

So are you saying that the claim of scientific miracle that the bees are female is made up?
 
I have just read a book on basic Quranic grammer written by Jamal-Un-Nisa Bint Rafai,

He says "the common gender of those nouns whichare either masculine or feminine are, e.g. (sahabuun (clouds), (dahabuun(Gold)),.....(Nahl(bees)) ...... these are masculine by form feminine by signification."
 
kay106 said:
So are you saying that the claim of scientific miracle that the bees are female is made up?
Click to expand...
Yes. It doesn't make sense if you translate it for singular female. See if you do this:

16:68] And your Lord inspired the [female] bee: build homes in mountains and trees, and in (the hives) they build for you.

[16:69] Then eat [oh female bee] from all the fruits, following the design of your Lord, precisely. From their [her] bellies comes a drink of different colors, wherein there is healing for the people. This should be (sufficient) proof for people who reflect.

Does a bee have more than one stomach? If it does, I'll admit the miracle, but if it doesn't then no.
 
kay106 said:
I have just read a book on basic Quranic grammer written by Jamal-Un-Nisa Bint Rafai,

He says "the common gender of those nouns whichare either masculine or feminine are, e.g. (sahabuun (clouds), (dahabuun(Gold)),.....(Nahl(bees)) ...... these are masculine by form feminine by signification."
Click to expand...

Actually, I didn't know Nahl was one of these(But if it is, it has to be translated as bee, not bees.), or Dhahabun, for that matter. (See, I'm still a student myself). I may have to rethink my position on this, but the bellies thing still doesn't make sense, while with bees (plural) it all works out.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
If Nahl is a singular feminine bee, how do you call a singular masculine bee then?
Click to expand...

To the best of my knowledge, nahl is used for the singular male.

An-Nahl is 'Ism ul-Jins' or 'species name'. It can be used to give both singular and plural meaning. (Sort of like 'sheep' in English being used both for plural and singular) The use of kulli, fasluki and other singular feminine forms shows that it is being used in the plural meaning, as singular feminine form is used for plurals of non-intelligent nouns.
Click to expand...

My opinion is that nahl cannot be used for singular female, or if so, definitely not in this context.

Here, Nahl is being used for plural and as it referrs to a non-intelligent group (animals), the singular feminine form is used in conjugation in the words kulee, faslukee and botooniha.

16:68] And your Lord inspired the bee/s: build homes, oh you bees in mountains and trees, and in (the hives) they build for you.

[16:69] Then eat, oh you bees from all the fruits, following the design of your Lord, precisely. From their bellies comes a drink of different colors, wherein there is healing for the people. This should be (sufficient) proof for people who reflect.
Click to expand...

See, no significant change occurs.
 

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