Is celebrating Thanksgiving haram?

[Mustafa16]

Me, my mother, my brother, my sister, my brother-in law, and my sister's friend were planning on celebrating thanksgiving together.....is this haram (btw, my brother-in law, sister's best friend, and probably my sister are not muslim, so this ruling only applies to me, my mother, and my brother)

 

[aaj]

We are not allowed to celebrate religious holidays of other nations. But this is not a religious holiday, it is a historically cultural holiday. On that account it wouldn't be haram.

But we are also not allowed to imitate non-Muslims in things that are specific to them. This holiday is specific to the non-Muslim (Americans) and celebrating it would be imitating them. You can read more on it at here inshallah:

https://fatwa.islamweb.net/en/article/155839/muslims-preparing-a-turkey-dinner-on-thanksgiving-day

Also, we shouldn't celebrate this holiday on moral grounds as well. We as Muslims stand for justice for all. This holiday came about from massacres and oppression of the Natives of this land. Every time the Puritan Christians massacred the Natives, they held a "thanksgiving" dinner in celebration of it. It got to a point that there were too many celebration dinners to keep up and so the president of this nation set one day of the year as a celebration holiday. This holiday originates from blood bath and massacre of innocent people.We should not have anything to do with it. We give our thanks to Allah everyday and don't need one day of the year to do that.

 

[Serinity]

It sounds like from what I read from [MENTION=39296]aaj[/MENTION], that this holiday is a thanksgiving/celebration on the massacre and bloodbath.

Sounds so contradictory to thank God(or whoever they thank) for killing innocents.. Sounds like something inspired by Shaytaan/Iblees.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

 

[Mustafa16]

It sounds like from what I read from @aaj, that this holiday is a thanksgiving/celebration on the massacre and bloodbath.

Sounds so contradictory to thank God(or whoever they thank) for killing innocents.. Sounds like something inspired by Shaytaan/Iblees.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

actually, thanksgiving celebrates when the first english settlers came and many died in the winter, but the survivors made peace with the natives at harvest time and had a feast and thanked God for surviving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)

 

[aaj]

actually, thanksgiving celebrates when the first english settlers came and many died in the winter, but the survivors made peace with the natives at harvest time and had a feast and thanked God for surviving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)

That's what they teach the in the schools. Just as they teach how Columbus was a national hero who founded America when he was a murderer and a rapist. What you learn in the schools different than what the real history is.

 

[sister herb]

actually, thanksgiving celebrates when the first english settlers came and many died in the winter, but the survivors made peace with the natives at harvest time and had a feast and thanked God for surviving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)

I was just thinking this when reading the second and third posts (what sounded quite odd explanation). So it´s originally to celebrate as helping others and co-operate with your neighbors, not massacre them. Sounds a good way to behave also at this time.

Other parts I have to agree. Celebrating other´s feasts isn´t recommendable (or allowed) in Islam.

 

[aaj]

I was just thinking this when reading the second and third posts (what sounded quite odd explanation). So it´s originally to celebrate as helping others and co-operate with your neighbors, not massacre them. Sounds a good way to behave also at this time..

https://www.manataka.org/page269.html

http://links.org.au/node/753

 

[sister herb]

Interesting article. But as here are many other versions too about this the first Thanksgiving, how we can be sure which one is "real"?

As thinking afterwards, the American natives should have refused to co-operate with European settlers and drive them off from the whole continent before they really settled to there but unfortunately they couldn´t know what will happens at the future. If the "official" version is real, they seemed to behave like many other people whose live in the mercy of nature when it´s just natural to help others whose need helping hand desperately.

 

[Mustafa16]

Interesting article. But as here are many other versions too about this the first Thanksgiving, how we can be sure which one is "real"?

As thinking afterwards, the American natives should have refused to co-operate with European settlers and drive them off from the whole continent before they really settled to there but unfortunately they couldn´t know what will happens at the future. If the "official" version is real, they seemed to behave like many other people whose live in the mercy of nature when it´s just natural to help others whose need helping hand desperately.

even though celebrating thanksgiving is haram, i am enjoying this break......i get 9 or 10 days off of school, and I get to use that time to fast (including today....I have 4 make up days from Ramadan left)....

 

[cooterhein]

We are not allowed to celebrate religious holidays of other nations. But this is not a religious holiday, it is a historically cultural holiday. On that account it wouldn't be haram.

But we are also not allowed to imitate non-Muslims in things that are specific to them. This holiday is specific to the non-Muslim (Americans) and celebrating it would be imitating them. You can read more on it at here inshallah

Thanksgiving, for most Americans, involves getting together with family and eating lots of food. And usually watching American football, along with arguing about politics. For the most part, it's a socializing thing. There isn't much that anyone would necessarily be called upon to imitate, that would be an exception rather than the rule.

Also, we shouldn't celebrate this holiday on moral grounds as well. We as Muslims stand for justice for all. This holiday came about from massacres and oppression of the Natives of this land. Every time the Puritan Christians massacred the Natives, they held a "thanksgiving" dinner in celebration of it. It got to a point that there were too many celebration dinners to keep up and so the president of this nation set one day of the year as a celebration holiday. This holiday originates from blood bath and massacre of innocent people.We should not have anything to do with it. We give our thanks to Allah everyday and don't need one day of the year to do that.

Most of that is completely untrue. Yes there were massacres, but no there were not recurring celebrations of massacres. And the Thanksgiving celebration (not a celebration of bloodshed or massacres!) only became a national thing at a set time starting in 1864 (yes, that was an election year).

Now, there had been off-and-on celebrations of Thanksgiving, although it varied by region and there wasn't a specific date that everyone followed. It tended to go state by state, or region by region, and there was no universal timetable or practice nor was there anything close to 100% participation. In all of these celebrations, it was a remembrance of when Squanto and Massasoit and the Wampanoag tribe helped the Pilgrims survive a rough winter, and that is what people gave thanks for. Yes they did ignore the crimes against humanity that would follow historically, but no they did not regularly celebrate the barbarity of their ancestors, because honestly who does that. It's a celebration of survival, of friendship, and of Divine Providence. All while ignoring a bunch of key facts of what else would happen right after all of this, and while ignoring key facts about the barbarity and intolerance of these Puritans...but that is not what people are celebrating, and you said they were, and that's the part that you're getting wrong here.

Getting back to the main point. It wasn't celebrated by the entire nation on a fixed date until Abraham Lincoln made it happen. This happened shortly after he won re-election and while the Civil War was still a few months from being over, and the intent of the holiday was to help a deeply divided nation come together in a way that could promote unity in spite of conflict and loss. It was sometimes, more broadly, referred to as a "Union Festival" at the time- including within the letter from Sarah Josepha Hale that prompted Lincoln to make it a federal holiday. In a certain sense, the goal was to promote healing between North and South, help the South get over being the losers in that election and then the war, and help everyone be okay with each other in spite of that.

Perhaps this is an opportunity to give thanks for the safety and prosperity that you can enjoy in Donald Trump's America, in spite of it being Donald Trump's America. This is what we hope for, anyway, and it's really too bad that he makes it so hard to do this. In hindsight, this may wind up being the last time it was relatively easy to believe in that kind of sentiment.

 

[keiv]

Thanksgiving, like most holidays today, are not celebrated with the intentions they once had and have simply become money making opportunities for the capitalists. Most people today either don't know or don't care about the origins of a holiday, whether it be religious or cultural. Look at how people treat Ramadhan these days. They sleep all day and go shopping / socializing with friends and family all night. Also, whatever you learned in school about such holidays (thanksgiving, easter, christmas, columbus day, etc.) you might as well forget about it..

Like I stated above, most people probably just don't care even if they do know. It's simply a way to take a break off from school / work. To some people, it's a way to spend time with their families but for a lot of people, its nothing but drama, competition, and overall headache. The Publix commercials will make it seem like a precious thing but in reality, most people (Americans anyways) dread the idea of having a family get together lol

 

[aaj]

Thanksgiving, for most Americans, involves getting together with family and eating lots of food. And usually watching American football, along with arguing about politics. For the most part, it's a socializing thing. There isn't much that anyone would necessarily be called upon to imitate, that would be an exception rather than the rule.

That's what it evolved to today, but historically that's not what it was for. As for the imitation, it is a holiday that is celebrated by a specific group of people (Americans) and thus celebrating it is imitation of that group of people and participating in their holiday with them. If it was a general holiday that all of the world celebrated, like Earth day, then that would be different.

Most of that is completely untrue. Yes there were massacres, but no there were not recurring celebrations of massacres. And the Thanksgiving celebration (not a celebration of bloodshed or massacres!) only became a national thing at a set time starting in 1864 (yes, that was an election year).

I guess we should ask the Natives then, they would beg to differ.

 

[Woodrow]

That's what it evolved to today, but historically that's not what it was for. As for the imitation, it is a holiday that is celebrated by a specific group of people (Americans) and thus celebrating it is imitation of that group of people and participating in their holiday with them. If it was a general holiday that all of the world celebrated, like Earth day, then that would be different.


I guess we should ask the Natives then, they would beg to differ.

Speaking on behalf of my wife (She is Native--Northern Cheyenne Tribe) and her relatives. It is a day off work and nothing else.

Some Facts about Thanksgiving, it is not that traditional as today's generation thinks. It was first declared a holiday by Lincoln on Oct 3, 1863 as thanks for a pivitol victory against the South at Gettysburg.

The Thanksgiving now known was declared a Holiday by Prseident Franklin Roosevelt on Nov 26, 1941---I'm older than Thanksgiving as a National Holiday.

The idea for a National Day of Thanksgiving was borrowed from Canada which began celebrating Thanksgiving on Nov 6, 1879

The idiotic pilgrim stories and the big First Thanksgiving dinner are fictional embellishments to make it look more important. It actually came about as a response to a demand by over worked laborers that wanted a day off work to be with family.

The only reason it has become a big deal is because the retailers have turned it into a very effective advertising ploy.

It is not a holiday unique to the USA and many countries have variations of it, on different dates.

I think much confusion is caused by the word holiday, although it is derived from Holy Day it does not mean Holy Day, it means a mandatory day off work (Usually with pay)


noun hol·i·day \ˈhä-lə-ˌdā, British usually ˈhä-lə-dē\

Simple Definition of holiday
: a special day of celebration : a day when most people do not have to work
Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/holiday

 

[aaj]

Speaking on behalf of my wife (She is Native--Northern Cheyenne Tribe) and her relatives. It is a day off work and nothing else.

There were many different nation of tribes. You're wife happens to be from on of those nations and not the one that was massacred at these events that started this tradition.

Happy Thanksgiving: An American Indian Perspective

“Thanksgiving” has become a time of mourning for many Native People. It serves as a period of remembering how a gift of generosity was rewarded by theft of land and seed corn, extermination of many Native people from disease, and near total elimination of many more from forced assimilation. As celebrated in America “Thanksgiving” is a reminder of 500 years of betrayal.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/terra-trevor/happy-thanksgiving-an-ame_b_1110701.html

Do American Indians Celebrate Thanksgiving?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/denni...indians-celebrate-thanksgiving_b_2160786.html

THANKSGIVING: A Day of Mourning
http://americanindiansource.com/mourningday.html

The Thanksgiving Myth: Not A Bad Start
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-dr-randy-s-woodley/the-thanksgiving-myth_b_2175247.html

Many presidents came along and made a tradition of celebrating it for one reason or another but its' origin starts with the oppression, massacre and betrayal of the Natives of this land.

Of course all the narrative in the mainstream resources will be contrary to this because victors write the history.

The thanksgiving is celebrated in a handful of other nations, some of which were influenced by US through it's colonization of that land. Others, very few, like Japan have their own tradition of giving thanks that can be called Thanksgiving.

The biggest and well known holiday to the world is US Thanksgiving. And being in the US, we are talking about celebrating this holiday with the people of this nation. And that is what we have to look at. Which we cannot because it is a holiday specific to this nation of people and partaking is imitating them. And as good Muslims we should boycott it on moral grounds as well, otherwise we only add insult to injury of the Natives while claiming to be people of Justice.

 

[cooterhein]

That's what it evolved to today,

So at this present moment that's the main thing that really, immediately matters.

As for the imitation, it is a holiday that is celebrated by a specific group of people (Americans) and thus celebrating it is imitation of that group of people and participating in their holiday with them.

If you were to put together some sort of celebration in your own home, that would be imitation. If you are invited to someone else's home and you

literally

Eat Food,

Talk to People,

And That's It,

That's not imitation. That's regular social behavior that gives absolutely no concessions to another religion, so in this particular sense, it would be absolutely abnormal to claim that it is sinful. Meaning, more precisely, that if you or someone you know is....

A) Invited to a Thanksgiving meal, which again is a non-religious holiday, in order to

B) Eat Food and Talk to People, it would be unreasonable, inflexible, and just plain abnormal for you to say

C) That is haram, because you discovered an argument for how this is technically sinful, and you just won't let go of that.

So please consider letting go of that.

If it was a general holiday that all of the world celebrated, like Earth day, then that would be different.

I'm not so sure that really makes any difference. What should make more of a difference is this sort of question: Are you being asked to make religious concessions to some other religion? If you're not, it seems pretty obvious to me that the thing should be held harmless to your religion. Of course no one is required to do anything to celebrate Thanksgiving, it's not a mandatory holiday and no one will force you to do any particular thing within your own home, but if you are invited to someone else's home where some of this is happening, it would be fairly rude and just plan wrong for you to take an anti-social approach based on the suggestion that this thing harms your religion or offends your religious beliefs in some way. Or that it's haram, or that it's sinful. It's really not.

Thanksgiving, as a secular holiday, should be held harmless where Islam is concerned. That is the main point. If you wish to decline an invitation to someone's home, your reasons for declining could be almost anything else and that would be more okay. If you don't like the people who invited you, fine. If you're worried that these people in particular will use any personal contact as an excuse to speak poorly of your religion, fine. If you have something else going on, fine. If they have a dog and you don't like dogs, fine. If older relatives are expected to be in attendance and you just know they're going to be fairly offensive, fine.

But if you claim that eating food with Americans on Thanksgiving and talking to Americans on Thanksgiving is somehow technically sinful for you (what do either of those things have to do with "imitating" them?), and that it's haram, this is not quite as okay. It's slightly offensive.

I guess we should ask the Natives then, they would beg to differ.

Well, maybe you should talk to some Native Americans about alternative festivals and celebrations that they participate in as a means of defining and celebrating their particular cultural identity. And then when they invite you to come check it out, you can tell them that's haram for you as well. Maybe they'll try to tell you it's not a religious thing and it doesn't force you to compromise your religious beliefs in any way, and you can tell them it doesn't make a difference, you pride yourself on finding sin in the most unlikely places.

 

[aaj]

So at this present moment that's the main thing that really, immediately matters. .

By that token we can celebrate other holidays as well. We can celebrate Halloween, all it is is just a fun night for people to dress up in costumes and have some fun and kids to get some free candies. Right?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

If you were to put together some sort of celebration in your own home, that would be imitation. If you are invited to someone else's home and you

literally

Eat Food,

Talk to People,

And That's It,

That's not imitation. That's regular social behavior that gives absolutely no concessions to another religion, so in this particular sense, it would be absolutely abnormal to claim that it is sinful.

This day is singled out for very purpose of getting together to have a turkey dinner and

Meaning, more precisely, that if you or someone you know is....

A) Invited to a Thanksgiving meal, which again is a non-religious holiday, in order to

B) Eat Food and Talk to People, it would be unreasonable, inflexible, and just plain abnormal for you to say

C) That is haram, because you discovered an argument for how this is technically sinful, and you just won't let go of that.

As I mentioned, this is not a religious holiday, like christmas, and therefore it would not be haram (forbidden) to participate in it on that basis.

But at the same time we are forbidden in imitating the non-believers so as to differentiate between us and them. Does this mean everything that they do is not allowed? of course not, what this refers to is partaking in something that is specific to a nation of people.

I love turkey just as the next guy and it's the only time of the year you can get halal turkey but that doesn't mean I have to participate in it THAT specific day. I have mine on the weekend, like a normal dinner like any other day of the week.

As for the sitting down, eating food and talking to people. That can be done on any other day as well, it does not have to be on this specific day.

But if you claim that eating food with Americans on Thanksgiving and talking to Americans on Thanksgiving is somehow technically sinful for you (what do either of those things have to do with "imitating" them?), and that it's haram, this is not quite as okay. It's slightly offensive.

I do not know why you find it offensive. If you invite me over for dinner and get together any other day, I would be more than happy to accept it. This isn't about you, it is about us and what we are allowed and not allowed to do in accordance with Islam. The whole trim your mustache and grow your beard command was given so as to differentiate the Muslim men from the non-Muslims. The whole basis of it is so you are not mistaken for one of them whom you imitate but rather stand out as a Muslim with Muslim identity. Same goes for hijab, so that the women are recognized as respectable believing women and are not bothered.

I'm not so sure that really makes any difference. What should make more of a difference is this sort of question: Are you being asked to make religious concessions to some other religion? If you're not, it seems pretty obvious to me that the thing should be held harmless to your religion. Of course no one is required to do anything to celebrate Thanksgiving, it's not a mandatory holiday and no one will force you to do any particular thing within your own home, but if you are invited to someone else's home where some of this is happening, it would be fairly rude and just plan wrong for you to take an anti-social approach based on the suggestion that this thing harms your religion or offends your religious beliefs in some way. Or that it's haram, or that it's sinful. It's really not.

That's not really your call nor your place to determine whether it's haram or not. This is not my opinion either, but rather what the scholars have stated based on the command of the Prophet :

It is forbidden for a Muslim to prepare a turkey dinner on Thanksgiving because this is an imitation of non-Muslims. It is confirmed in an authentic narration that whoever imitates a people is one of them.

The prohibition of resembling the non-Muslims is not restricted to inward actions [beliefs, actions of the heart] and intentions, but also to outward actions.

it is permissible for the family to gather on that day because it is a holiday but without making this day as a festival and imitating the non-Muslims in their eating traditions and the like. It should be a family gathering like all other gatherings throughout the year [without any special food, settings or decorations].
​

https://www.islamweb.net/en/article/155839/


This is the islamic stand on this matter. What Muslims do personally varies on their level of knowledge and commitment to their religion.

 

[Serinity]

Since this thanksgiving is specific to the disbelievers, and is a custom of the disbelievers, it'd be an imitation, and thus haram. Afaik.

This is so as to not confuse a Muslim for a kafir. Imagine, may Allah protect us from this, if a Muslim went t Christmas, and celebrated that, audhu billah.

Could you tell, as an outsider, that "Muslim" to be a Muslim, if he did that?

On the topic of this, would it be haram for me to purchase on black Friday? I am a bit sceptical.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

 

[Aaqib]

....

 

[Aaqib]

Since this thanksgiving is specific to the disbelievers, and is a custom of the disbelievers, it'd be an imitation, and thus haram. Afaik.

This is so as to not confuse a Muslim for a kafir. Imagine, may Allah protect us from this, if a Muslim went t Christmas, and celebrated that, audhu billah.

Could you tell, as an outsider, that "Muslim" to be a Muslim, if he did that?

On the topic of this, would it be haram for me to purchase on black Friday? I am a bit sceptical.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

You're overthinking this. Why would it be haram? It is basically when all stores open early and they give cheaper prices than the price it was before. How could it be haram? It's actually good for us since we can buy stuff that is a lot cheaper than it used to be. It's just a shopping day.

 

[cooterhein]

By that token we can celebrate other holidays as well. We can celebrate Halloween, all it is is just a fun night for people to dress up in costumes and have some fun and kids to get some free candies. Right?

That's been my experience, yes. That's just a bit different though, since Halloween began as something that was religious in nature and its historical progression cannot be held harmless when it comes to Christianity (or Abrahamic religions in general). Some of the dressing up is essentially a nod to the harm found within that history and that progression, and although it is fairly harmless, I can understand people (even if I'm not inclined to join them) who feel some type of way about that, because there is something in the way of

actual harm

to your religion

that's got something to do with the thing. In this case, the thing is Halloween.

Thanksgiving is different. It's never been specifically religious in nature- atheists can give thanks to their people, and theists can give thanks to whatever deity or supreme being they choose or any type of people they want- and it would be far more accurate to say it is, and always has been, the sort of thing that....

can be held perfectly harmless

really, completely harmless

when it comes to religion in general and, if this is your specific interest, Islam in particular.

Therefore, I don't think a complete equivalency is something that can be comfortably made between these two holidays. Halloween, or All Hallow's Eve if you prefer (the eve of All Saint's Day) was and to a certain extent still kind of is a holy day, in the proper and Church-originated sense of the word Holiday.

Thanksgiving is nothing of the sort.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Any particular reason why that might be?

As I mentioned, this is not a religious holiday, like christmas, and therefore it would not be haram (forbidden) to participate in it on that basis.

At this moment, if I'm understanding you correctly, we seem to agree. Thanksgiving- unlike Christmas or Easter or Halloween (in a provisional sense) is not any type of religious holiday, it can and ought to be held harmless where Islam is concerned, and so Muslims should not claim that there is any religious issue with participating when invited to do so.

But at the same time we are forbidden in imitating the non-believers so as to differentiate between us and them. Does this mean everything that they do is not allowed? of course not, what this refers to is partaking in something that is specific to a nation of people.

Somehow, I doubt that is the exact thing that it really means. Do you have any sources? I wouldn't want you to be guided by something that you made up on the fly- or, worse yet, try to guide others with that thing.

Oh, there's just one other thing. What if a Muslim happens to be an American? You know, an actual American. Someone who specifically belongs to the nation of the people that they live around. In this particular instance, we actually might want to think such a person is an American, because they are in fact Americans.

I love turkey just as the next guy and it's the only time of the year you can get halal turkey but that doesn't mean I have to participate in it THAT specific day. I have mine on the weekend, like a normal dinner like any other day of the week.

But what if you are invited to someone else's home when they're doing the thing? One of the best times I've ever had with my family at Thanksgiving was when most of my family got together, and we also hosted a Vietnamese/Chinese couple, a Shia Muslim from Saudi Arabia, a formerly-Sunni Muslim from Syria who's now an atheist, the stepson of an Angolan senator, a mother and daughter from Ukraine, and a couple of older neighbors who didn't have any of their people coming to town.

Nobody thought any of those people were Americans. Here's what we actually thought: This is a day on which everyone is off work, and there's nothing to do if you want to go out anywhere. But for that particular Thanksgiving, my extended family hosted a larger-than-usual get-together mainly so they could have something to do. They decided that socializing with friends and meeting some new friends was better than being at home doing nothing.

What exactly is wrong with this exact scenario? Who is harmed, and in what way? Do you honestly think anyone would be confused by such a thing?

I'm trying to read your objection as carefully as I can, but quite frankly, the more I go over it that more I think you're talking out both sides of your mouth. On one hand, it's not a religious holiday, you don't seem to think anyone is being harmed by this sort of thing, and it's not haram. On the other hand, you are forbidden from partaking in something "that is specific to a nation of people."

Here's an idea. If you are not an American, but you somehow find yourself in America and you've been invited to participate, why don't you let this nation and those people decide whether or not you're forbidden. If you are invited to a thing, you are not forbidden. You are the opposite of forbidden.

Let me put it to you this way. Imagine your American friend is on the phone with you.

Friend: What are you doing for Thanksgiving? It's not like anything is open, you can't really go anywhere....we'd love to have you over for dinner. I understand you're a Muslim, we can work with the dietary restrictions, there isn't any religious issue with this right?
You: No, there's no religious issue, it's not haram because it's not any sort of religious holiday. However....I don't want anyone to think I'm imitating you, so although there's no religious prohibition, I'm forbidden from participating.
Friend: No, you're not forbidden, I just invited you. Do you want to come over or not?

As for the sitting down, eating food and talking to people. That can be done on any other day as well, it does not have to be on this specific day.

But it could, and on this day it's most convenient, since pretty much everyone is off work and able to travel. Which means there actually are a bunch of people that you can only see on this day, or over the course of this long weekend.

You could avoid socializing with people on any other day as well, so why would you pick this specific day to be anti-social? It's not for religious reasons, at least not in the sense that it is haram. And yet at the same time, you also said it's forbidden. Which is basically what haram means. And that is the main thing that's confusing me in your response- early on, you say this is not haram. And later, you say it's forbidden.

I'm actually confused here.

I do not know why you find it offensive. If you invite me over for dinner and get together any other day, I would be more than happy to accept it.

The reason it's mildly offensive is because you appear to have a bias

not a hard and fast rule, but a bias

towards being anti-social on a day when everyone is freed up from work, a lot of people travel, and the main reason for doing so is for socializing purposes.

Do you have a general bias against socializing with people in this context on this particular day? Do you have a bias in favor of socializing on this particular day? Or are you indifferent, and whether you're favorable, anti, or indifferent, is it the same sort of bias every day?

Perhaps I misinterpreted what you were saying. If you have a bias against doing this sort of thing (on this particular day), that's mildly offensive. If you are indifferent in the same way as you are every other day, that's more understandable.

But if you've been invited to something by friends that you actually know pretty well, "indifferent" is generally not the right sort of attitude to have on any given day. Just in terms of how you should treat friends in general, you should have an everyday bias in favor of seeing them. If we are talking about some actual friends of yours, you should have a bias in favor of going to see them on every weekend, every Thursday, and any other day as long as they're free and you're free and nobody has scheduling conflicts. Here's the thing with Thanksgiving though- it eliminates the scheduling conflict. If you're around and within easy traveling distance, this should be doable and everyone knows it. So....what's you bias, good bad or even? And what will your bias be over the weekend, or next week, or in the middle of December? Do you have some sort of bias that you turn on and off for Thanksgiving, or do you operate the same as on any other day?

This isn't about you, it is about us and what we are allowed and not allowed to do in accordance with Islam.

And this is allowed. As far as I know. And according to half of what you said.

The whole trim your mustache and grow your beard command was given so as to differentiate the Muslim men from the non-Muslims. The whole basis of it is so you are not mistaken for one of them whom you imitate but rather stand out as a Muslim with Muslim identity. Same goes for hijab, so that the women are recognized as respectable believing women and are not bothered.

That sounds like a basis for religious differentiation. This is not a religious holiday, so what is the issue?

Imagine if a Muslim woman, while wearing a hijab, goes to the home of some friends for Thanksgiving. And she goes with her husband, who has a nice long beard. Everyone knows they're Muslims. There is no religious issue here.

But then people start to wonder if they are US citizens, if they were born in this country, perhaps they were born somewhere else but then came to the US and became citizens, maybe they have a work permit or are here for school and they may or may not become citizens at a later time....

And none of that has anything to do with their Muslim identity. Who cares if these Muslims are US citizens? Does it really matter? I'm not even going to pick an outcome for this couple, because I don't think it matters one bit. Are you honestly concerned about that? I understand the importance of making the religious distinction- and this is very easily done while still participating in a Thanksgiving meal- but who honestly cares what their citizenship is? No one is going to ask to see their paperwork, our hypothetical couple wouldn't expect to need it, and unlike their religious identity, the name of their homeland is Not something that they concern themselves with broadcasting.

So you've brought up the issue of religious identity. And for about the fifth time, I'm saying this is a scenario where that is not a concern, and this is a secular holiday that can be held harmless.

That's not really your call nor your place to determine whether it's haram or not. This is not my opinion either, but rather what the scholars have stated based on the command of the Prophet :

Okay, I'm glad you have a source.

It is forbidden for a Muslim to prepare a turkey dinner on Thanksgiving because this is an imitation of non-Muslims. It is confirmed in an authentic narration that whoever imitates a people is one of them.

Okay. Cool. But what if someone else prepares the dinner and invites a Muslim over? Is that haram? The Muslim did not prepare the turkey.

More to the point, what if the Muslim in question is an American? The same way I'm an American. Meaning....we're both Americans. In other words, when it comes to America, these Muslim American citizens are, in a nationalist sense, "one of us." Is this meant to push back against the idea that Muslims can be truly American, just like any other American?

Is it worth pointing out that the authentic hadith in question was probably dealing more exclusively with tribal identity, and perhaps this issue of national identity is a different sort of thing to puzzle out?

The prohibition of resembling the non-Muslims is not restricted to inward actions [beliefs, actions of the heart] and intentions, but also to outward actions.

I really would have thought it would be restricted to religious actions, though. But again, it's possible that with the source in question, it's operating with a different scenario that doesn't involve any sort of national identity.

it is permissible for the family to gather on that day because it is a holiday but without making this day as a festival and imitating the non-Muslims in their eating traditions and the like. It should be a family gathering like all other gatherings throughout the year [without any special food, settings or decorations].

I wonder if the author of this authentic hadith could have possibly conceived of secular governance and a diversity of religious identities that are held separate from a national identity....in other words, is Islam truly opposed to a common secular national identity, or does some of your religious material simply predate any such thing?

This is the islamic stand on this matter.

Well, it's one Islamic stand on the matter. Thank you for the source though.

What Muslims do personally varies on their level of knowledge and commitment to their religion.

It may also depend on what other Islamic stands exist on the matter. Try to imagine that a different Muslim has the same level as knowledge as you, perhaps even more, the same amount of commitment to Islam, perhaps even more, and they still reach a different conclusion as you.

Doable?